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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Super Smash Bros. Brawl Online is lacking

Entroper on 08 January 2008
windbane said:
Entroper said:
windbane said:
Also, anyone that argues against online stats (not just leaderboards) can't also complain about getting a loss from a disconnect. If you don't want stats what do you care? It prevents people from quitting.

This is your asinine way of saying "your opinion doesn't count." Just because someone doesn't care about stats doesn't mean they can't point out problems with different ways of handling stat tracking. And just because Starcraft did something 10 years ago doesn't mean that's the best thing to do. Maybe in the last 10 years, we should have come up with a better way to handle disconnects.

Anyway, the way to please both camps is to give people a choice. GH3 lets you play ranked matches or unranked matches. Perhaps Brawl should do this, but the fact that it doesn't does not bother me in the least. Nintendo does not want its online community to be known for immature 13-year-olds waving their e-penises around in every match, and Brawl's online functionality is consistent with that. I respect that.


Uh, yeah, I am saying the opinion doesn't matter because logic says it doesn't. People that want stats will not care if you get a loss from disconnecting because 1) it will prevent a lot of people from dropping and 2) is a lot better than not having stats at all. People that don't want stats can point out problems with a method of stat keeping all they want but it doesn't matter if other people want the stats and are more than willing to deal with the perceived problem. If you don't want stats, why are you arguing against stats that others want? Why do you care? A

Most people are not going to quit, and if it becomes a problem play matches that aren't tracked (which apparently should be an option because of the whiners that don't want stats) or find a new game. A lot of people are going to quit if they aren't having fun anyway, but people drop from online games all the time and a match-finder should find you new opponents. B

I think a lot of you underestimate how much people like stats. If there is no long-term incentive to play, people will move on to new games. C

But fine, I'll agree there should be a choice. As far as we know there isn't one right now, so that is a problem.


A) One of the arguments against stats is that it makes people disconnect to protect their ranking.  So those who want stats provide a solution, treat disconnects as losses.  The response is, that has problems too.  What is so difficult to understand about this?

B) The answer to this is in my second paragraph above, which everyone seems to have ignored.

C) What's wrong with moving on to new games?  Who honestly wants to play the same game for years at a time?  I've seen what happens to these communities with Counter-strike, TFC, and even Melee for those who play in tournaments -- it becomes a contest of who can exploit the game engine the most, and it's not fun for anyone who hasn't put most of their life into the game.  Melee is still fun enough for me to break out whenever I have friends over who like the game, and I don't need stats for that.  But if Melee were online with stat tracking, I wouldn't want to play in a public match today against wavedashing fanatics.



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kirby007 on 08 January 2008

stats for online games is nothing !!



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Fuzzmosis on 08 January 2008

I kinda cared about stats online while I was 12. After playing for 6 hours a day and maintaining a very high ranking, I realized that wasn't fun. So... I played for fun. Didn't care that I wasn't the highest ranked person in Subspace. And even with those rankings, there were leagues of different calibre and tournaments set up in that game if you really want to know how good you are. Apparently, I was the level of a top league draftee, so... about top 200 of those who play the game. Yay?

If stats are tracked, great. But people are dicks, and have ridiculous issues with losing. If you can't lose, don't play, because you never start out as the best. But generally, that's a bigger problem with people than stats themselves.



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Smash_Brother on 08 January 2008
jlrx said:
Im going to continue to disagree with you, because I shouldnt have to play in some tournament to see how I am stacking up against the rest of the planet. I'd like to give a tournament a try, i'd like to play people of a similar skill level and id like to know how I stack up against the people of the earth.

If the only way I can do that is go on a website, and find a tournament, well no, thats not sufficient. You talk about fun, but that is subjective to ones opinion. I'd find a tournament fun as much as i'd find the game fun when picking it up and playing a match in 20 minutes before putting it down again.

I wouldnt even care if the stats were in leaderboards either, if it were just for your own personal info, I could live with it, open up SSBB and it tells me "Your ranked 8,329,983 in the world, and ranked 4,382,212 in the USA! , you've done A and B and C and D, and you have X win/loss streak you've disconnected Y times.

I'd live with that, and id like that.

So you'd rather have reassurance about being a good SSBB player even if the data is inaccurate and completely unfounded?

What I don't get is that there are a shit-ton of online games with no leaderboards which people love just fine and don't bitch about. Why should SSBB be expected to have one when so many others do not?



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

Grey Acumen on 08 January 2008

Pros of Leaderboards: Rankings can be determined so that you are playing against people of similar skill level

Cons of Leaderboards: Cheaters who will disconnect in order to keep from losing

Note: I believe in the original mention of online implementation on smashbros.com, that it was stated that people WOULD be ranked in order that they would be going up against people of similar skill level.

Point of argument: There do not seem to be leaderboards where people can see their stats.

Conclusion: Leaderboards are not being shown, but STATS ARE CALCULATED. Most likely, this is all behind the scenes. You won't see your stats, but they will be calculated to ensure your placement with similarly skilled players. This has all of the pros of leaderboards without the cons.



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Omega_Phazon_Pirate. on 14 January 2008
windbane said:
jlrx said:
The argument against stats is completely inane. If you dont care about them, then they dont affect you in any way so having stats would only be a plus for those who want them.

If you dont care about any kind of stats, why be against it? Your insanity is growing from the lack of a logical counter point to that statement.

We dont need leaderboards, but I like stats, and I like the ability to do a "quick match" and have someone connected to someone with similar level of experience.

I wont be anywhere near the first 500,000 ranked people ever, but I always like to know how im doing compared to others, competition is good, the only people who dont keep score are the people who never learned to accept a loss. (The same kind of freaks who think its a good idea to not keep score during a little league game)

I agree with everything you've said.

I'm not sure why people are arguing against it. Some Nintendo fans are very strange. It's like they don't want extra features.

If you don't want stats don't play a ranked game or turn stats off, or just don't care! Exactly! A lot of people want stats. It's not going to change whether I play the game but it might change how long I play. If you want online games and people to play against, stats are a great way to keep people playing.


 Extra features =/= good thing some of the time.

Some people do get discouraged when they face someone with no life and get whupped and it is recorded.  And you are not "a lot of people."  I'm sure lots of people don't want stats.  And it's been stated many times... that's what smashboards.com is for. 



                           

weezy on 14 January 2008

2v2 has made the online part of SSBB leet.



I am WEEzY. You can suck my Nintendo loving BALLS!

 

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Omega_Phazon_Pirate. on 14 January 2008
windbane said:
Entroper said:
windbane said:
Also, anyone that argues against online stats (not just leaderboards) can't also complain about getting a loss from a disconnect. If you don't want stats what do you care? It prevents people from quitting.

This is your asinine way of saying "your opinion doesn't count." Just because someone doesn't care about stats doesn't mean they can't point out problems with different ways of handling stat tracking. And just because Starcraft did something 10 years ago doesn't mean that's the best thing to do. Maybe in the last 10 years, we should have come up with a better way to handle disconnects.

Anyway, the way to please both camps is to give people a choice. GH3 lets you play ranked matches or unranked matches. Perhaps Brawl should do this, but the fact that it doesn't does not bother me in the least. Nintendo does not want its online community to be known for immature 13-year-olds waving their e-penises around in every match, and Brawl's online functionality is consistent with that. I respect that.


Uh, yeah, I am saying the opinion doesn't matter because logic says it doesn't. People that want stats will not care if you get a loss from disconnecting because 1) it will prevent a lot of people from dropping and 2) is a lot better than not having stats at all. People that don't want stats can point out problems with a method of stat keeping all they want but it doesn't matter if other people want the stats and are more than willing to deal with the perceived problem. If you don't want stats, why are you arguing against stats that others want? Why do you care?

Most people are not going to quit, and if it becomes a problem play matches that aren't tracked (which apparently should be an option because of the whiners that don't want stats) or find a new game. A lot of people are going to quit if they aren't having fun anyway, but people drop from online games all the time and a match-finder should find you new opponents.

I think a lot of you underestimate how much people like stats. If there is no long-term incentive to play, people will move on to new games.

But fine, I'll agree there should be a choice. As far as we know there isn't one right now, so that is a problem.

 


 No, your opinion is not logic.  You know the game Halo right?  You know Halo for the PC (and Xbox I'm pretty sure) don't have stats, or leaderboards or anything?  It's just matches with up to 16 people.  It's concentrated on the fun of the game, not the best.  Lots of people still play it today and it's been out for quite some time now.  Is this online flawed?  I'd like to hear your opinion on that.  And if yo uwant to see if you are best, just organise tournaments like so many people in this topic have been saying.  You keep mentioning that we are whining about not wanting stats, but you seem to be whining about having stats.  And if people quit because they aren't having fun, then whatever.  They aren't forced to play.  However, lots of people quit/disconnect because they want to protect their precious record or just don't want the other person to have the win... now THAT'S  problem.  I think you underestimate how much people DON'T want stats.

That is all... for now. 



                           

FaithRaven on 15 January 2008

The only reason against ranking is the fact that loosing people will disconnect ? Lol that can be easily fixed by removing "disconnects" term from stats and simply counting a disconnect as a loss.

There should be two options to choose from: Practice games and Rated games. Everyone will be happy this way.

Why do you direct people that want rankings to 3rd party solutions that are all buggy and full of ads. This people pay Nintendo to deliver them what they want just as you are. And it's so easy to make happy the both sides ...



 

Alacrist on 15 January 2008

I always thought it was funnier to play games with friends that's sitting next to you......maybe that's just me though?