It doesn't matter who was there first, what matters is who was there last when this political invasion began and that is the Palestinians. The Palestinians should not be evicted from their homes and their lands just because a 5000 year old book said so.

Aint gonna happen. Ever.

Never could never would.

@sapphi_snake

I love how you try to spin stuff again. This wasn about conflicts between empires, but between religious groups. Jerusalem was christian, and was attacked by muslims which caused Christians to start a crusade. Oh, and dont pretend that jerusalem was never attacked by various different muslim empires who had nothing to do with jerusalem before its religious sovereignty came to question

Religious groups can have no pretense to a particular territory. That is a political matter (thus making any religious conflict be ridiculous). There was no unity between Christians. The Christians that led the Crusades had never owned Jerusalem, and thus had no right the think they should own it. Plus, the Crusades were led by state armies.

I support the non Islamic option, Israel.

Ugh, they do actually, ESPECIALLY is that territory is Jerusalem, the holy city for 3 major religions in the world. I mean, what the hell do you think thousands or chrstians, jews and muslims died for in Midddle Ages

Civilizational influence and political power in the case of the Christians and Muslims. Jews were killed by both sides in the crusades, being a minority people out of favor with both groups for different reasons (and Jewish persecution was more genuinely religiously inspired at the time, as anti-semitism has become more and more a political tool over the years), but with the Christian and Muslim side it was all about power. Sure, the aristocrats who led the armies from Western Europe went in with Papal consent and held the message of redeeming the lands of Christ's birth, life, and death, but they all merely sought reward, and they were rewarded: The County of Edessa, the Principality of Antioch, the County of Tripoli, the Kingdom of Jerusalem. All were as rewards to the conquering crusaders, and the Muslims wished to drive them back out for reasons of power as well, namely that with the Christian states in the Near East, they could now pose a direct threat to the lands of the Seljuk Turkish empire.

Religion is an excuse for wars of other motivation, at least on the whole

Jews were on the muslim side during the first crusades against christians. But I dont know why you quoted me tho

I quoted you to show that i was siding with Sapphi in his realist interpretation of supposedly religious conflict.

Land, money, and the ability to project power are why we fight wars. Ideology, religion, ethnicity are merely the groups we can form ourselves into so that we are able to fight wars

Sapphi reaaly likes to twist stuff when in argument. I quoted him saying that almost all conflicts between muslims and christians were started by muslims, he than said that since Jerusalem was under Byzantine, other christians had no right to regain Jerusalem (great logic, I know) I responded by sayin that this wasnt about which empire holded Jerusalem but rather under what religious  theocracy was under. Then he said religious groups have no pretense in some territory (despite well over 80% of people in the world being religious) and I said they do, especially in a city such as Jerusalem, for obvious reasons. Then you jumped in. What you said there had little to do with our original discussion