Mr Khan said:
Player1x3 said:
Mr Khan said:
Civilizational influence and political power in the case of the Christians and Muslims. Jews were killed by both sides in the crusades, being a minority people out of favor with both groups for different reasons (and Jewish persecution was more genuinely religiously inspired at the time, as anti-semitism has become more and more a political tool over the years), but with the Christian and Muslim side it was all about power. Sure, the aristocrats who led the armies from Western Europe went in with Papal consent and held the message of redeeming the lands of Christ's birth, life, and death, but they all merely sought reward, and they were rewarded: The County of Edessa, the Principality of Antioch, the County of Tripoli, the Kingdom of Jerusalem. All were as rewards to the conquering crusaders, and the Muslims wished to drive them back out for reasons of power as well, namely that with the Christian states in the Near East, they could now pose a direct threat to the lands of the Seljuk Turkish empire.
Religion is an excuse for wars of other motivation, at least on the whole
|
Jews were on the muslim side during the first crusades against christians. But I dont know why you quoted me tho
|
I quoted you to show that i was siding with Sapphi in his realist interpretation of supposedly religious conflict.
Land, money, and the ability to project power are why we fight wars. Ideology, religion, ethnicity are merely the groups we can form ourselves into so that we are able to fight wars
|
Sapphi reaaly likes to twist stuff when in argument. I quoted him saying that almost all conflicts between muslims and christians were started by muslims, he than said that since Jerusalem was under Byzantine, other christians had no right to regain Jerusalem (great logic, I know) I responded by sayin that this wasnt about which empire holded Jerusalem but rather under what religious theocracy was under. Then he said religious groups have no pretense in some territory (despite well over 80% of people in the world being religious) and I said they do, especially in a city such as Jerusalem, for obvious reasons. Then you jumped in. What you said there had little to do with our original discussion
