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Forums - Politics - Poll: Israel or Palestine?

 

Who do you support in the conflict and why?

Israel 124 34.35%
 
Palestine 235 65.10%
 
Total:359
badgenome said:
Mr Khan said:

What you have cited as well is an instance of short-term racism and xenophobia in a country currently running on mob mentality and lacking a rational state actor visage, as well as acting against an individual, which afflicts many countries that, as states, are still rational actors.

Except there's nothing short term about it, and it fits perfectly into a larger pattern: that of an Islamic world which was never very tolerant to begin with (unless compared to medieval Christendom) but which over the past century has managed to backslide even further, turning into a seething basket case.

Short-term was perhaps the wrong phrase. National attitudes will translate to how a nation acts on the world stage, but the point i've been stressing is that state actors, when adequately informed of their surroundings, make rational decisions which, given very high costs imposed against them, prompt them to act in a certain way.

To get back to the point, my whole line of thought has run to the idea that a Palestinian state that isn't hopelessly crippled (due to being crisscrossed by Israeli-only highways) or isn't still being occupied or blockaded would have a people who, while they resent their Israeli neighbors, are willing to live with them in the sense of not trying to kill them, and who will marginalize Hamas because they know that listening to Hamas will jeopardize their stable statehood, since stable statehood is preferable to the current situation, despite being less preferable than what they would desire in an ideal world



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Israel was solely set up after the Second World War so that all the Jews could live together in peace. Judaism is a religion it is not a race. People of various different ethnic cultures are recognised as Jewish. Muslims and Jewish people should learn to live peacefully together instead of fighting against each other.



HappySqurriel said:
Israel ...

There have been several two party state solutions proposed over the years, even ones with Palestine getting the "lion's share" of the division, and these have always been accepted by Israel and rejected by Palestine.

It is fairly clear that the Palestinians are not looking for their own state, they're looking for the destruction of Israel ... which is a position I simply can not support.


Bolded is BS.

In 1948 they were offered roughly 60% of the total land.. however it was only 30% of the land viable for farming and living on. Then of course everything since then was less than 50% of their land.

Palestinians can't be expected to support peace when their homes are still being demolished and replaced with Jewish settlers. No one could ever accept that.



badgenome said:
Mr Khan said:

What you have cited as well is an instance of short-term racism and xenophobia in a country currently running on mob mentality and lacking a rational state actor visage, as well as acting against an individual, which afflicts many countries that, as states, are still rational actors.

Except there's nothing short term about it, and it fits perfectly into a larger pattern: that of an Islamic world which was never very tolerant to begin with (unless compared to medieval Christendom) but which over the past century has managed to backslide even further, turning into a seething basket case.

Its amazing the amount of historical fallacy that is presented in this thread.

Islamic world was the far different historically than it is now. Studying Jewish history itself would show this as there have only been two non-Jewish states the Jews have ever lived in where they were treated equably and flourished. The US and the Islamic world (pre-1800's), specifically Spain under Muslim control.



Joelcool7 said:

Umm yah you see Jews always resided in Israel it was their land originally and always has been.

Wrong.

Jews took it from various others originally too. THen they were kicked out by Romans and over a couple hundred years Arabs became the dominant people and that stayed that way until they were evicted by European immigrants.



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Xen said:
Being Israeli, it's a very easy choice.


I tought you were Russian



superchunk said:
HappySqurriel said:
Israel ...

There have been several two party state solutions proposed over the years, even ones with Palestine getting the "lion's share" of the division, and these have always been accepted by Israel and rejected by Palestine.

It is fairly clear that the Palestinians are not looking for their own state, they're looking for the destruction of Israel ... which is a position I simply can not support.

Palestinians can't be expected to support peace when their homes are still being demolished and replaced with Jewish settlers. No one could ever accept that.


In that case, they're crazy and will never want peace.   Generally "getting my ass kicked" is positivly correlated with wanting peace.  If your situation worsening means you want peace less... it's a pretty good sign that you just don't want peace at all.



Player1x3 said:
Xen said:
Being Israeli, it's a very easy choice.


I tought you were Russian

By blood and cultural identification, not location and nationality however.

Even if I lacked the latter though, the choice would be no less easy.



Kasz216 said:
superchunk said:
HappySqurriel said:
Israel ...

There have been several two party state solutions proposed over the years, even ones with Palestine getting the "lion's share" of the division, and these have always been accepted by Israel and rejected by Palestine.

It is fairly clear that the Palestinians are not looking for their own state, they're looking for the destruction of Israel ... which is a position I simply can not support.

Palestinians can't be expected to support peace when their homes are still being demolished and replaced with Jewish settlers. No one could ever accept that.


In that case, they're crazy and will never want peace.   Generally "getting my ass kicked" is positivly correlated with wanting peace.

Read what i've been writing. If you have a bully who's just out there to bully you, and no teacher or anyone in authority will come to your aid, you have no recourse but violence against the bully. If you believe your foe cannot be bought, reasoned, or negotiated with, then you will choose to fight even if it means getting your ass kicked over and over again.

Now this may be due to problems of communication, but that's how it will be



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

esssam said:
yo_john117 said:
osamanobama said:
well the land belongs to the israelis, so i would have to say Israel

This.

And how does it belong to them? is it because it used to be theirs according to religion?? ok, but does this give them an excuse to conquer it?? Lets say I used to live in a house and then I moved along and you came to rent it instead, does the fact that I used to live there before you give me an excuse to break in, physically vilate you and take the house? Because I really want to understand, when the jews were not in Israel were they taking a vacation just to come back to their "home" land again when it is finished?

Youd dont understand. Jews are ethnoreligious people, so someone might be jew by religion but also by blood and ethnicity