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Forums - General Discussion - Do you think it is normal having firearms?

joora said:
 

 

So, you're saying that you own a gun not because of fear that you might get assaulted/robbed (presumely by a person carrying a firearm), but  ____________?(fill the blank)

 

 


 Your presuming.  Having a gun is also protection from someone wielding a knife or swinging a heavy steal object on a rope above their head.

It could also be protection form someone trying to rape you.



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Andir said:
Using your post, I would assume you would outlaw bodybuilding next because with bodybuilding a knife can be a deadly weapon? And there's really no purpose to bodybuilding except making yourself stronger than someone else and thus able to kill?

Also, by your explanation of a reason to ban guns, then we must also ban swords as they are killing tools. Daggers, slingshots, crossbows, bows, any axe over a certain size, hammers of more than a certain weight and boomerangs. Everything I mentioned was designed to kill at one point or another in history. Another thing that was designed to kill is nuclear reactors, rockets, and bombers. You should also place razor blades on a "watch list" because they can be tied to a tongue depressor and be used to slit the throat of a victim (Shiv, a weapon designed to kill with no other use.)

Oh, and I forgot, the root of all killing devices. A pointy stick.

BTW, guns are used for target shooting, clay pigeons, collecting, and most recently to shoot t-shirts into the stands at football games. Yes, those are air powered guns and could be loaded with potatoes or rocks and do some serious damage as well.

 All hand to hand weapons require more energy/knowledge to kill than firearms.

 If i'm not mistaken, Japan has firearm ban, and almost all murders/assasinations are done with knives/swords/katanas/other hand-to-hand weapons.They are pretty tricky to complete, because you need to be at close range, musk know how to take down the victim with first strike, and so on,  so i bet there are waaaaaay less murders in Japan than in USA.

  



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Actually, joora, I have a question for you. I had already asked it in an edit of a previous post, but I think you might have missed it.

You say that you feel safer knowing that it's almost impossible for anyone to get guns where you live. Are you saying that you do not trust the people in your community to be able to use guns responsibly? In my eyes, that actually is a more fearful view of the world than mine is, as I feel that if the citizens in my community possessed guns, that they would be able to use the guns responsibly. I'll admit, there are certain specific cases where I know people would be idiots, but I also think that with the proper weekly required training courses, that these people would either have to shape up, or they would not be able to own guns, and furthermore, while these idiots might still be able to get around these requirements, I would still have the majority of the community armed and capable of helping me defend myself from them if required.

 

And joora, it doesn't matter how you're killing a person, injury and death don't require a PhD in order to cause. Any criminal who would choose to use these weapons would quickly pick up the skills neccessary to kill with them.



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joora said:
I see that fear is directly linked to wanting/owning a gun (as in for self-defense purposes). Doesn't more guns create more fear?

here guns are illegal without a permit which is not easy to acquire. People don't have to purchase one either. I had numerous walks trought the city (which is capital of my country) at times like 1am-6am without any fear of getting killed/injured. Personally, i would like it to stay that way.

since our TV channels lately are filled with series like CSI and so on, i can see the "culture of fear" in USA, and i sometimes say to myself "thank God i don't live there, the fear would always haunt me, gun or no gun". I'm not saying that the series show realistic picture of living in america, but they pump the fear. Always murders, mass murders, kindapping, terrorism, extorsion blah blah. That or sitcoms. nothing in between.

Old men take walks outside of my street in the middle of the night.(well except now in the winter, well even then when it isn't icy.) 

 

Fear dosen't effect my position at all.



Grey Acumen said:

Actually, joora, I have a question for you. I had already asked it in an edit of a previous post, but I think you might have missed it.

You say that you feel safer knowing that it's almost impossible for anyone to get guns where you live. Are you saying that you do not trust the people in your community to be able to use guns responsibly? In my eyes, that actually is a more fearful view of the world than mine is, as I feel that if the citizens in my community possessed guns, that they would be able to use the guns responsibly. I'll admit, there are certain specific cases where I know people would be idiots, but I also think that with the proper weekly required training courses, that these people would either have to shape up, or they would not be able to own guns, and furthermore, while these idiots might still be able to get around these requirements, I would still have the majority of the community armed and capable of helping me defend myself from them if required.

 

And joora, it doesn't matter how you're killing a person, injury and death don't require a PhD in order to cause. Any criminal who would choose to use these weapons would quickly pick up the skills neccessary to kill with them.


 

Like i've said in one of my previous posts, almost every human being can be driven to a state where he can't control his actions (by pressure, stress, fear...) for short or long period of time. In every community there is also a certain percentage of people that aren't mentally stable (is it called liability? ). There is also a percentage that can achieve the state where they react on impulse by some harsh argument, verbal fight or something in that lines. Every man has different limits.

So, my answer is that i prefer my community without guns. Because, they make easier to cause damage.

And, any person can learn how to use a knife efficently, but it involves more risk than using a firearm, even if he's attacking a non-armed person.



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I am a proud owner of 5 deer rifles and 2 shotguns. I use them for deer hunting, duck hunting, goose hunting, and trap shooting. Not all guns are used to kill people. There will never be a law outlawing the right to bear arms. It is a fundamental right that every citizen has. Going through the legal process of registering guns that are bought allows for people to be screened so felons do not get ahold of them. However tougher laws against carrying illegal weapons would crack down on deaths by guns. Most of the problem appears to be from illegal aliens, people in the ghetto, and gangs.



joora said:
 

Like i've said in one of my previous posts, almost every human being can be driven to a state where he can't control his actions (by pressure, stress, fear...) for short or long period of time. In every community there is also a certain percentage of people that aren't mentally stable (is it called liability? ). There is also a percentage that can achieve the state where they react on impulse by some harsh argument, verbal fight or something in that lines. Every man has different limits.

The idea that it is so easy for a person in your community to reach a limit of that nature makes me very concerned for completely different issues in your community than gun ownership.

I'm hardly claiming that everyone in my community is perfectly balanced and as stable as I am, but this doesn't change the fact that the issues that are driving people to these  limits are what need to be addressed first, not the possesion of a firearm. It's like taking the batteries out of a fire alarm becaus eit's too noisy. It doesn't stop your house from burning down.

 



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Grey Acumen said:
joora said:
 

 

The idea that it is so easy for a person in your community to reach a limit of that nature makes me very concerned for completely different issues in your community than gun ownership.

 


Well, my community/country hasn't got the issue of large number of murders. Infact, even bare handed brawls are very rare here. In the first post i saw how you wanted to spin this around. Besides, certain amount of people do own a firearm here(some illegaly, some trough hardly acquired license). The rate of illegal weapon possesion isn't even that small, because of the war we went trought some 15 years ago.

Still, there aren't many firearm murders here. Something in the lines of 15-30 per year (whole country). That said, i would like to conclude that those who have illegal/legal possesion of firearms here know how to (not) use em. But i don't think that it would be wise to give the ability of weapon possesion to the whole community.

So your argument fails in multiple ways.



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Again, your talking about motive. The US is in a VERY weird state right now. Race violence in the suburbs and cities, gangs of kids that have nothing better to do than hang around and goof off, poverty levels at the point where it's common for vehicles, tires, radar detectors, radios, iPods, Playstations, TVs... you name it, and it is stolen. Sure, guns being freely available makes them the weapon of choice, but taking away the guns will not stop people from stealing radios, cars, etc. You take away the guns and the kids will continue vandalizing, instead of shooting each other (which is where I would say 90-95% of the crime statistics you see in the media) they will just knife each other. A gang of kids will jump an old lady and instead of threatening her with a gun, they will probably chase her down and cut her till she bleeds to death. You apparently don't understand the violence in the US right now. Not purely fatal violence, but kids to look at each other wrong, say something wrong, or generally wear the wrong color coat to school. There's an issue deeper than guns in the inner cities and taking away the guns will not stop it from happening. I have a feeling that you are severely misinformed and are using the media as your eyes and ears.



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joora said:
Grey Acumen said:
joora said:
 

 

The idea that it is so easy for a person in your community to reach a limit of that nature makes me very concerned for completely different issues in your community than gun ownership.

 


Well, my community/country hasn't got the issue of large number of murders. Infact, even bare handed brawls are very rare here. In the first post i saw how you wanted to spin this around. Besides, certain amount of people do own a firearm here(some illegaly, some trough hardly acquired license). The rate of illegal weapon possesion isn't even that small, because of the war we went trought some 15 years ago.

Still, there aren't many firearm murders here. Something in the lines of 15-30 per year (whole country). That said, i would like to conclude that those who have illegal/legal possesion of firearms here know how to (not) use em. But i don't think that it would be wise to give the ability of weapon possesion to the whole community.

So your argument fails in multiple ways.

It wasn't an argument, it was a statement, so it can't fail as an argument. That statement was also based on YOUR statement that you wuold be afraid if everyone had guns in your community, you then tell me that the current gun owners, both illegal and legal, are quite responsible about it. Yet despite all these figures you quoted me about low mortality, you still feel that the rest of your community is not worthy to trust with gun ownership.

So my statement still stands. 

 



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Currently wrapped up in: Half Life, Portal, and User Created Source Mods
Games I want: (Wii)Mario Kart, Okami, Bully, Conduit,  No More Heroes 2 (GC) Eternal Darkness, Killer7, (PS2) Ico, God of War1&2, Legacy of Kain: SR2&Defiance


My Prediction: Wii will be achieve 48% market share by the end of 2008, and will achieve 50% by the end of june of 09. Prediction Failed.

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