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Forums - Politics - Herman Cain: It is your fault you are not rich...

The problem with his statement is that you can only get rich by following certain paths in life. A construction worker will never be rich, a cashier at a grocery store will never be rich, a bus driver will never be rich. Does that mean they don't work as hard, if not harder then someone who makes 100k+ a year? Of course it doesn't.

People like Herman Cain don't seem to understand this and they don't respect or even appreciate the middle or lower class. If everyone had the aspiration to follow one of these paths toward a high paying career that would be great but who would wait are tables, or bag are groceries?

 

Now I don't think the problem is that the poor want to be rich, they just want to live comfortably. It's not about getting hand outs, it's about getting a fair share. The price of living goes up, minimum wage needs to go up. It's not possible to survive on 6.25 in most areas of the country.



This is only my opinion.

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mrstickball said:
deskpro2k3 said:

The rent is to god damn high! No matter how much you make weekly, the rent is to god damn high!!!


Depends on where you live.

Where I live - its pretty darn cheap for a 2br/1ba apartment. I charge about $450 including trash and water. That is about 33% of a person's takehome pay if they were making minimum wage in America.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4o-TeMHys0



Yes you can get rich but it is harder then ever, actually it might come down to who you know, Not what you know. Here's thoughts of why it is very hard and usually impossible to climb that ladder just to live comfortable, not even rich. Ok I see a lot of fights of this and that but here is the case. The united states middle class did great between 1940 and 1980. This was do to the regulation of wall st., the rich paying there fair share, Also import tariffs where in place to keep people from shipping jobs over seas.

actually back then they payed way more then there fair share and also seen great gains in there pay as well. The upper percent seen a 5% pay increase over the middle class. So relatively close. Reagan came in and pushed supply side economics. Well this simple act has had the decline of the middle class ever since. However I think most in here are making the picture black and white. That's a problem and here are some reasons why. In the 70's you could have a high school degree and become very successful.

If you had a college degree you where almost guaranteed success. You could also have a minimum wage job, afford your own apartment, car and also eat comfortable. People seem to forget that one person used to work in the household and feed there family and live with a nice future of retirement and benefits. However 2 People have to work in the household now and barely make it with college degrees. While working more and not taken more time to take care of there kids. It also could be a added contribution to the high failure rate of divorce. Most divorce's go wrong because of financial difficulty.

So all in all, yes you can reach for the sky. however when all the work has been shipped over see's and bush's policies reward corporations with tax incentive's to do so. People coming out of college with over $100,000-$500,000 Financial debt. and can't find a job might just be having a hard time becoming rich. If you are getting a job at that level most likely you know someone or had good numbers on your side. Most seem to forget that the private sector is holding on to 1.3 Trillion dollars of money. The most in history.

Most of these corporations last quarter (like exxon) Made record profits. The most they ever made. They have got tax free incentive's to hire people, still where are the jobs. bush's tax cuts have been in place for 11-12 yrs. The jobs have disappeared. Do you think this is because they are putting there money in off shore accounts and avoiding taxes all together. Or the added fact that tax breaks do not create jobs. DEMAND creates jobs.

The only way I see supply side economics working and creating jobs is if the mom and pop shops get them. Which they don't because they can't afford lobbyist that help make legislation with our wonderful representative's that are bought out by the the upper 1%. So yes you can have tax breaks work if you do so for the people who need them, to help them compete with higher end business. Also these 1% people who generally only pay 15% or less. Have hugh companies that also get big tax breaks.

which have trucks that use our roads, bridge's, pollute our air, damage natural eco system's, Taint our drinking water and this is just a portion of what all the big bizz does. There greed to appeal to there stock market investor's causing corporations CEO's to seek out profits even if it means dropping everyone's pay in the company, Even if they have no reason to do so. Actually it used to be illegal to reward CEO's with bonus's for there stock market performance, Wonder why?? That was made legal in the late 70's.

We have seen employee downgrades all over. At wal-mart, Home depot and many other corporations that used to pay good wage's if you stuck around. Now they have so many technicalities in place that you can get written up or fired for anything. Thus pushing the way for cheap labor and forcing higher paid labor out the door for cheaper help. Example: This happened to my girls mom, which has college degrees. She was helping a costumer but yet couldn't answer the phone at here stand because you have to help the costumer find there product or get written up, while also tending to the phone yet you are not to leave the costumer. So you can't do both, seems to be impossible, specially sense she was far away finding a door for the costumer. She got fired for this.

All of the higher payed employees got fired for stupid technicality, this seems to be the new business model. Yet these are the people that are rewarded. These CEO's of corporations have seen 5,000% to 10,000% raise's while the bottom 90% scene only a 1% increase in pay in the last 30yrs. Not only that you got the upper 1% running computer algorithms trading 1,000,000 stocks a second which should be illegal and even is suggested that this is the cause of 25% of our gas cost at the pump. There should be a steed tax in place. Basically a .05% tax on trades to stop this legal scam.

let's not forget that people like Paris Hilton only pay 15% on making money off there money. A real capitalist. Mitt Romney made around 9 Million last year and payed 14%. So why do we pay so high? While our wages have decreased and the upper 1% is having it better then they ever have, while other starve and have no health care. While working for companies that there is no future. If you have no money you can't really get a education if you can't get there. You can't afford school or pay if there is not a job before or after you get out.

Most of you have never starved for food, I have. Maybe you did. howeve I grew up poor. If your man deal is to worry about eating, how you suppose to even think about getting rich or even have the chance. I've Sleeped in my car because my two minimum wage jobs did not pay enough or give me enough hours. I have my own house now but I'm not rich and I bet I've worked a heck a lot harder then 90% of these born into rich families have. I'm not looking for a hand out but just for the people wage's and quality of jobs to go up.  Some one look at what the % of people being poor or even making it out of there social class is. then lets talk about making it rich. I think the # might surprise you. Plus the government taking Fair tax rates from the 1%, not even more, just fair.

This is not people asking for a hand out. It's saying, rebuild our bridges that you are ruining and create good paying jobs. Allow people to check our food( EPA) which republicans want to defund. So That way you don't die from food poisoning or tainted drinking water. Help clean our waters. Help our roads. Plumbing that you use, our storm drains. This all creates great jobs and benefits for people. Which in turn they spend money, paying bills. CREATING demand. This is not happening.

So if you get rich you better be f'ing lucky or know someone to help you up that latter. Yes you can make it but it comes down to circumstance's. If you want to know why demand works! Example: if I own a store and I get a tax break. Ok this helps but if you don't need anyone because not enough people are coming in and buying products that need to be crafted or stocked or cleaned. You have a choice, keep the money or hire someone for no reason.

Yes I agree mom and pops shops should get them, however massive corporations and bizz is not hiring and that's because demand is not high and thats what creates the jobs. So if the government takes the regular tax's from these people It pays for the wars we are in, plus the infrastructure and many other necessary jobs and regulations that help us live safe and healthy. if you don't regulate greed, greed will take every penny you have and even out of your dead hand.

SO TO SUM THIS UP. When you got all this greed in power, it is very hard to get rich and only a few make it by chance. Not even luck, just numbers. Pure numbers. When, where, who, why and how. These events make big difference. remember making under 250,000 is not rich. We are talking upper 1% rich. people should have a bigger slice of the pie, people shouldn't have to die getting to the top and many do.

Our pay should be better, it's not. greed has controlled this nation, our politicians, rules, laws, media and made us believe we deserve sh-t. while people sitting by the pool that don't work, collect checks for nothing and pay less of a percent when in truth, there money is making millions of dollars of damage to our infrastructure.

People like Paris Hilton.  A number that should ring with you. The upper 1% owns more wealth then the bottom 40%. Actually the bottom 80% only own 7% of the wealth and this number has plummeted since the 1980's . It's not that people won't work, it's that people can not afford to work for dirt cheap. Occupy wall st. is a good representation of why and the frustrations that people are feeling. So maybe the money should be spread out a little more so there is not the suffering that I'm seeing. I see it all over my neighbor hood but other's refuse to see it. People are not making it and they work hard. There pay has been replaced by minimum wage that can't feed little johnny or the wife.

THIS IS NOT THE AMERICAN DREAM, THIS IS THE AMERICAN NIGHTMARE. These policies where in place before and you know when that was. before the great depression, that's why we put the taxes and rules in place in the first place. So wake up 99% you are all 99% here. Maybe not but I'm willing to bet 99% of you are. Have a good one and I hope you enjoyed and learned something. I did not do this to offend but because I care. I think America is going down in flames and the masses have been lead by the money of the 1% to there own demise. Peace.

 

Some number for you

    Every $1.00 Government spending  on infrastructrure = $1.59 economic stimulus. $1.00 spent on unemploymnet benefits = $1.64 economic stimulus. As for food stamps, each $1.00 spent on food stamps = $1.73 economic stimulus. 

     So what about there great idea of tax cuts for the rich and corporations.  So for every $1.00 of corporate tax cuts = only 30 Cents economic stimulus. Every $1.00 givin to billionaire hedge fund manager or capital gains tax cuts =  only 37 Cents economic stimulus. Every $1.00 spent on the Bush tax cuts = only 29 cents economic stimulus. These are the facts. Info From Moody's Analytics Mark Zandi.  



Player1x3 said:
mrstickball said:
deskpro2k3 said:

The rent is to god damn high! No matter how much you make weekly, the rent is to god damn high!!!


Depends on where you live.

Where I live - its pretty darn cheap for a 2br/1ba apartment. I charge about $450 including trash and water. That is about 33% of a person's takehome pay if they were making minimum wage in America.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4o-TeMHys0

Come to chicago. You can't find a place under 800 for that.



richardhutnik said:
outlawauron said:
richardhutnik said:
badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:
Why weren't the parents of Herman Cain rich?
http://www.hermancain.com/about

He had a father who worked 3 jobs. Why wasn't his father able to get rich working 3 jobs? Is it possible that it is very unlikely one gets rich working a job?

Good question. Why would a black man in 1940s Georgia not be obscenely wealthy...? Hmmmm, nope. I can't think of any reasons.

Remember, the premise is, "if you aren't rich, it is your fault".  So, the ONLY reason why someone isn't rich, is because of government?

Seriously? Did Cain make this statement about the South in 1940s? Of course not. He's making a statement about current times. Disagree all you want, but your responses to these posts are poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws

That was a prior argument, that somehow, the laws were why someone couldn't make it. That would be about it.  So, is that what you are saying, that the laws alone were the only problem, or the entire culture of the time interfered?

I stand by what I said.  The argument Cain made was that everyone is self-made and that everyone CAN get rich, and there is no excuse why it doesn't happen.  It is all TOTALLY up to the person.  If one says if someone doesn't get rich, it is their fault, then it means neither the government, nor the cultural environment, NOTHING should prevent anyone from getting rich... period.

There were also African Americans who did get wealthy, during that time period, and under Jim Crow laws:

http://blackentrepreneurshalloffame.blogspot.com/2006/07/black-innovators-and-entrepreneurs.html

 

The great black creators and entrepreneurs both historically and currently are too numerous to mention. For example, Garrett Morgan was an innovator and manufacturer who invented both an efficient gas mask and the automatic traffic signal. During a long business career, Morgan manufactured clothing, hair products and his gas mask. In the 1920s, he was a key founder of the Cleveland Call, one of the most successful black newspapers in the Midwest. Dr. Percy Julian, an organic chemist, developed a new method of synthetically producing cortisone and, in the 1950s, established Julian Laboratories in Oak Park, Illinois. In a few years Julian’s company grew to be a widely successful pharmaceutical company, which he sold in 1961 for well over two million dollars. Dr. Charles Drew pioneered new techniques in the preservation of blood plasma that were instrumental in saving the lives of countless soldiers during World War Two. 

In terms of purely business success, the list is equally impressive. Arthur G. Gaston started his business career in 1923 by founding a burial service in Alabama to guarantee blacks a decent funeral. By 1932 it had grown large enough to be incorporated. Gaston started the Booker T. Washington Business College in 1939 and the Brown Belle Bottling Company in 1946, offering Joe Louis Punch. He followed these successes with a motel in 1954, an investment firm in 1955, a savings and loan association in 1957, a senior citizens home in 1963 and two radio stations in 1975. In 1986, at the age of 94, he opened the A. G. Gaston Construction Company. Gaston was a consummate self-made man, who overcame Jim Crow laws among other obstacles to eventually bring in more than $20 million in annual revenue. Named Black Enterprise magazine’s “Entrepreneur of the Century,” Gaston’s lifelong principle can serve as the credo of American entrepreneurship: “Money has no color. If you can build a better mousetrap, it won’t matter whether you’re black or white. People will buy it.”

 

 

If you want to say someone managed to do it on their own, and can do it, and it is someone's fault if they aren't, and you can show that people happened to do it under the worst conditions, either you then say that it was either luck (factors out of their control) or their own fault, period.  If you start saying that an individual didn't become rich, because of Jim Crow laws of a bigotted condition, then you have to say that there is a luck element which means that you can't say anyone who isn't rich, isn't rich because it is there fault.

So, in the case of Herman Cain's father, it is VERY likely his lack of formal education, and business training and temperment to be a business man, in addition to Jim Crow laws and the cultural climate resulted in him not becoming rich.  Do you care to argue that if Herman Cain's father were alive today, he would of become rich working 3 jobs?


Ok you are looking at it way to black and white. It's circumstancial, There's is a lot more to what, where, when and how, then just do it. You can get sick, not have insurance and they will take everything you own or say you had a pre-existing condition. This happens a lot with a for profit health care system. The odds of just making it comfortable are what should make sense. Who needs all that money anyway. If I was that rich I would just help people, thats All i would do and you are standing up for people that wouldn't spend a dim to help you or anyone else out. ThATS greed buddy.  Fine if you want to work your face off and not know your Wife, kids or make any kind of meaning in your life that means Sh-t besides money. Money don't rube me to bed, it can help me sleep better if my bills are paid. It doesn't buy love and usually buys another greedy person that only wants you for your money.

I know people working 3 jobs and there are no where close to being rich.  He's CDL driver, pizza delivery and passes out news papers. Yea though you can just get rich instantly, sh-t if it's that easy, why are there only a 1% that have that money? Why do only 80% of the population only own 7% of the wealth? What do you see as being rich. 150,000 is living very very comfortable but its not rich. How about this, what is your opinion of being rich. because not many people are really rich. They skate by just barely and thats with multiple jobs.



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pb1285n said:

The problem with his statement is that you can only get rich by following certain paths in life. A construction worker will never be rich, a cashier at a grocery store will never be rich, a bus driver will never be rich. Does that mean they don't work as hard, if not harder then someone who makes 100k+ a year? Of course it doesn't.

People like Herman Cain don't seem to understand this and they don't respect or even appreciate the middle or lower class. If everyone had the aspiration to follow one of these paths toward a high paying career that would be great but who would wait are tables, or bag are groceries?

 

Now I don't think the problem is that the poor want to be rich, they just want to live comfortably. It's not about getting hand outs, it's about getting a fair share. The price of living goes up, minimum wage needs to go up. It's not possible to survive on 6.25 in most areas of the country.

Right on there you go. This is exactly right. In the 80's you could easily get by on minimum wage and now you can't even live in a apartment on minimum wage without a room mate. Even then if you car breaks  your screwed. Now you have figure out whether you should eat or fix your car. Also people seem to think that when this happens a ride from heaven gets you to work. No all people don't  have these options.



Check this out...I'm rich and it's not my fault. My father-in-law is loaded :)



I LOVE paying for Xbox Live! I also love that my love for it pisses off so many people.

Maybe we'll see a return of monarchy is nothing is changed. All the wealth will be concentrated at the top and the rest of you will be slaves.



kowenicki said:
Its not true to say that if you arent rich it is your own fault...

But it is generally quite difficult to get rich by accident, it takes effort and/or ability.

The world owes you nothing.

A survey of Fortune 500 CEO height in 2005 revealed that they were on average 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m) tall, which is approximately 1.5 inches (3.8 cm) taller than the average American man. 30% were 6 ft 2 in (1.88 m) tall or more; in comparison only 3.9% of the overall United States population is of this height.[11] Similar surveys have uncovered that less than 3% of CEOs were below 5 ft 7 in (1.70 m) in height. Ninety percent of CEOs are of above average height.

 

"Currently, 15 FORTUNE 500 companies are run by women" [and thus 485 Fortune 500 CEOs are male]

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2010/womenceos/

 

Hispanics make up 15% of America's population and 2% of the population of the F500

http://www.usariseup.com/eyes-enterprise/cracking-plexi-glass-ceiling-2010-fortune-500-ceos-color

 

Add to this the advantages that can be brought about by your luck at birth that aren't directly correlated to genetics (rich parents = more expensive school, better/more food = grow taller)

 

Compare that to the average IQ of a CEO (104) compared to the average IQ of a person (100)

http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16454

http://www.iqtest-center.com/iq-scores.php

 

What it takes to become rich is contacts and appearance.



Galaki said:
Maybe we'll see a return of monarchy is nothing is changed. All the wealth will be concentrated at the top and the rest of you will be slaves.


The feudal age is making a comeback!