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Forums - Politics - Herman Cain: It is your fault you are not rich...

pb1285n said:

The problem with his statement is that you can only get rich by following certain paths in life. A construction worker will never be rich, a cashier at a grocery store will never be rich, a bus driver will never be rich. Does that mean they don't work as hard, if not harder then someone who makes 100k+ a year? Of course it doesn't.

People like Herman Cain don't seem to understand this and they don't respect or even appreciate the middle or lower class. If everyone had the aspiration to follow one of these paths toward a high paying career that would be great but who would wait are tables, or bag are groceries?

 

Now I don't think the problem is that the poor want to be rich, they just want to live comfortably. It's not about getting hand outs, it's about getting a fair share. The price of living goes up, minimum wage needs to go up. It's not possible to survive on 6.25 in most areas of the country.

My grandpa is well off/rich and all he was is a cop, he made his money by investing smartly and not overspending. My boss at my current place of employment is rich and he started as a busboy and worked his way up and bought the resturaunt.  There is a local mcdonalds that was bought by a worker who started out as a janitor. I know plenty of contruction workers who are well off (heck some have jobs that pay 30-40 an hour, usually atleast 20). But i also know plenty of contrucion workers who blow their money on lifted trucks, alchohol and weed. Its their choice what they do in life the sooner people realise this the sooner they will make the smart choice and save their money when they are younger to reinvest that money and make more money later on in life. It is what i am doing, but many of my friends are not no matter how much i tell them to. Should I feel sorry for them when in 10-15 years i am starting to take off finincailly from them? I also started my job at min wage and quickly got raises becuase it was worth it to pay me more.

 

I think the problem is people want something for nothing. I see many people who can start a min. wage job, bust their but and prove themselves to be a value to a company and thus get a raise for doing more/beter work than their coworkers. Why is that wrong? It gives people a choice, you can work harder and for longer hours and save money to make something with that money, or you can work not as hard, not as long, not save money and not be rich. I have yet to see hard working people fail in life.



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pb1285n said:

The problem with his statement is that you can only get rich by following certain paths in life. A construction worker will never be rich, a cashier at a grocery store will never be rich, a bus driver will never be rich. Does that mean they don't work as hard, if not harder then someone who makes 100k+ a year? Of course it doesn't.

People like Herman Cain don't seem to understand this and they don't respect or even appreciate the middle or lower class. If everyone had the aspiration to follow one of these paths toward a high paying career that would be great but who would wait are tables, or bag are groceries?

 

Now I don't think the problem is that the poor want to be rich, they just want to live comfortably. It's not about getting hand outs, it's about getting a fair share. The price of living goes up, minimum wage needs to go up. It's not possible to survive on 6.25 in most areas of the country.


Actually, you can become rich in any of those careers. Likewise, you can make 100k/yr and never become rich.

I could easily see a bus driver or construction worker becoming a millionaire if they did the right things. Grocier at a store would be difficult, but I have a good friend that started as a stockboy at Wal-Mart that is now making his way up the ladder pretty nicely, and I know if he made the right decisions, he could be rich too. Another example could be that construction worker starting his own handyman service and growing it into a big business. Gary Johnson started out as a construction worker, and led it to become a multi-million dollar construction service over a 15 year period and retired from it rather wealthy.

When I was 20, I did a lot of right things with my $8/hr paychecks from my jobs. I know that if I kept those jobs I could be rich. Maybe not a multi-millionaire, but I know that its pretty easy to have a million dollars or more in assets. Before the real estate collapse, I was worth about $250,000 at age 22 simply by making the right moves in life. That was without getting a dime from my parents, who have been poverty-stricken their whole life. I'm worth about that much at 26, but I took a big hit during the real estate collapse, but if I continue to make what I make now, I am certain that by age 30 I will be worth about $500,000 or more.

The reality is that you have to make right decisions, tough decisions, and that is what a lot of people do not want to do, are not informed how to do, or simply won't do it. It also takes time, which many people do not want to give to compound interest or other wealth-creating strategies that aren't get-rich-quick schemes or quick rags to riches stories.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

spaceguy said:
Player1x3 said:
mrstickball said:
deskpro2k3 said:

The rent is to god damn high! No matter how much you make weekly, the rent is to god damn high!!!


Depends on where you live.

Where I live - its pretty darn cheap for a 2br/1ba apartment. I charge about $450 including trash and water. That is about 33% of a person's takehome pay if they were making minimum wage in America.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4o-TeMHys0

Come to chicago. You can't find a place under 800 for that.

Then I'd move if I didn't have a good job :-p



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

If you spend less than you earn you'll probably become wealthy in the long run. People waste a lot of money on stuff that doesn't change the quality of their life. People are too concerned about what their neighbours have and overlook what's important in their lives.



Paul said:
If you spend less than you earn you'll probably become wealthy in the long run. People waste a lot of money on stuff that doesn't change the quality of their life. People are too concerned about what their neighbours have and overlook what's important in their lives.

People don't get rich saving.  They get rich owning assets that produce more money for them, and they leverage their time heavily.  And then, from this, there is a compounding effect that happens.  The saving is needed in order to be able to have extra resources that can be mobilized for more, and theoretically lead to an improved quality of life later.  Save to day, get more tomorrow.  But today, saving likely is running less than the rate of inflation.

What was discussed earlier in another post was about how America no longer had saved, and fell behind.  This CNN article goes into further details on this, on America getting soft:

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/09/america-is-getting-soft/?&hpt=hp_c2



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richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:

Anyone who is well off, will likely get adviced by their accountant to incorporate themselves, and set up a business, in order to change how they are taxed, and keep their taxes as low as possible.

As far as why the comparison, someone said that rich people pretty much cheat to get where they are.  I commented to that by saying people who are rich play by different rules than people that aren't.  This is what I was commenting on.  Individuals incorporate themselves.  And it was in response to this quote:

Galaki said:
To get rich quick, you don't play the rules.

I think you have it backwords... if they incorporate as an intependent contractor it's so their buisness pays less taxes.

If you own your own single person company your still taxed on everything you pay yourself at the regular rate.

You yourself aren't incorporated.  If you say, default on your morgage, you can't protect yourself via your corporation.


The "Tax benefits" are that you aren't taxed on anything kept in the company to increase the buisness of the company....

and anyone who has like a thousand bucks at most can do it if they really want to.

And I was saying here that someone making a lot of money will end up incorporating themself, usually as an LLC, for a number of reasons, to obtain benefits from the legal and tax code that non-corporations don't face.  You then structure your income and so on, in the form of a business, and maximize the tax code benefits.  There are ways to do that, and people with money will do this.

What one can do, if rich and incorporate, is put the house in the name of the business.  This is done to take advantage of the tax code, as I stated before.  Again, the rich play by different rules than everyone else, as I said before:

http://www.llc-made-easy.com/how-to-incorporate.html

It doesn't make much sense for an average joe, living paycheck to paycheck to do this, but the person with money, it does.

You do realzie that your link totally disagrees with the arguement you've put forth right?

"As far as deducting personal expenses from your taxes, you can never deduct any expenses that are not made in the ordinary conduct of a business or are reasonable to the conduct of your business."
It's actually directly illegal to put your home on there.
You CAN claim a home office if you work from home.... that's about it... but even then you have to pay rent to your buisness company, which then can not leave the buisness without it getting taxed personally.  Also to qualify you need to   A) Use your home office regularly.   B) It can ONLY be a home office, the room can't have anything non-office in it.  C)   Must prove you do major acts of buisness from there.   Such as pay bills, meeting people there or buinding stuff.
Furthermore, most rich people ARE salaried workers for other people.  That's what CEO's are for example.
Sure LLC's and S Corps (there are more of these then LLC's) are great for people with their own buisness.... but that goes for those who are rich, as well as those who just have their own etsy store selling bracelts they make from Johanns fabrics.


Kasz216 said:
Furthermore, most rich people ARE salaried workers for other people.  That's what CEO's are for example.
Sure LLC's and S Corps (there are more of these then LLC's) are great for people with their own buisness.... but that goes for those who are rich, as well as those who just have their own etsy store selling bracelts they make from Johanns fabrics.

According to the book, Millionaire Next Door, there are 4 times as many millionaire entrepreneurs as there are employees:

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html

* About one in five of us is retired. About two-thirds of us who are working are self-employed. Interestingly, self-employed people make up less than 20 percent of the workers in America but account for two-thirds of the millionaires. Also, three out of four of us who are self-employed consider ourselves to be entrepreneurs. Most of the others are self-employed professionals, such as doctors and accountants.

 

Individuals who are self-employed are not salaried.  And when you are self-employed, you are your own boss.  Being self-employed, and acting as an entrepreneur, you have more control over your environment, and are able to take more chances.  There are exceptions of course, heads of large corporations, but among the rich, they are in the minority.

Also, take the case of individuals in professions who work for each other and generally get to the top.  These individuals are in sales and not salaried.  They live off commission, and can make a lot of money.  They aren't salaried.



i'm rich compared to others, and i guess this guy is poor compared to others



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

richardhutnik said:
Paul said:
If you spend less than you earn you'll probably become wealthy in the long run. People waste a lot of money on stuff that doesn't change the quality of their life. People are too concerned about what their neighbours have and overlook what's important in their lives.

People don't get rich saving.  They get rich owning assets that produce more money for them, and they leverage their time heavily.  And then, from this, there is a compounding effect that happens.  The saving is needed in order to be able to have extra resources that can be mobilized for more, and theoretically lead to an improved quality of life later.  Save to day, get more tomorrow.  But today, saving likely is running less than the rate of inflation.

What was discussed earlier in another post was about how America no longer had saved, and fell behind.  This CNN article goes into further details on this, on America getting soft:

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/09/america-is-getting-soft/?&hpt=hp_c2

People don't get wealthy from saving (much) anymore because inflationary monetary policies and consumption focused economic policies undermine saving money as a strategy ... Even contractions in the market, which represent huge buying opportunities for those who saved and have liquid assets, are "prevented" to protect those that are over-leveraged (and those backing this insane debt).

Look at the housing market collapse to see the truth in what I say, you can look at this as being a negative to the people who used horrible terms to buy more house than they can afford or as a positive for those who saved up and can now afford their dream house; but all policies and government action sided with those who overbought ...



HappySqurriel said:
richardhutnik said:
Paul said:
If you spend less than you earn you'll probably become wealthy in the long run. People waste a lot of money on stuff that doesn't change the quality of their life. People are too concerned about what their neighbours have and overlook what's important in their lives.

People don't get rich saving.  They get rich owning assets that produce more money for them, and they leverage their time heavily.  And then, from this, there is a compounding effect that happens.  The saving is needed in order to be able to have extra resources that can be mobilized for more, and theoretically lead to an improved quality of life later.  Save to day, get more tomorrow.  But today, saving likely is running less than the rate of inflation.

What was discussed earlier in another post was about how America no longer had saved, and fell behind.  This CNN article goes into further details on this, on America getting soft:

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/09/america-is-getting-soft/?&hpt=hp_c2

People don't get wealthy from saving (much) anymore because inflationary monetary policies and consumption focused economic policies undermine saving money as a strategy ... Even contractions in the market, which represent huge buying opportunities for those who saved and have liquid assets, are "prevented" to protect those that are over-leveraged (and those backing this insane debt).

Look at the housing market collapse to see the truth in what I say, you can look at this as being a negative to the people who used horrible terms to buy more house than they can afford or as a positive for those who saved up and can now afford their dream house; but all policies and government action sided with those who overbought ...

Create a bubble in the middle of an area that impacts most Americans, and then you create a nice human shield that will result in mail outs for "pols with mechanations" (phrase from Fear the Boom and the Bust).

A big thing that causes liquidity to get stuck is to create very uncertain economic conditions also, which means no one knows where to stick money.  In case of immense uncertainty, you will even have people bailing from gold.