You guys don't seem to understand. Not everyone has the knowledge or the skill to move up in a company or start their own business. That doesn't mean they don't work hard. Besides, there aren't enough upper management jobs to go around for everyone. On paper it seems nice but it doesn't work in reality.

Minimum wage in New York is 6.25, that is about 900 a month after taxes

The average cost of an apartment is $2800, minimum wage doesn't even cover a third of the rent.

Again it's not about asking for a hand out, it's about getting a fair share.

The rich get rich by taking advantage of the poor, because they know they can. They say it's about their bottom line and making a profit, but all they really care about is lining their own pockets. The government couldn't do anything about it, even if they wanted to, because we'd just lose more jobs to countries with cheaper labor.

but are we really any better then they are? We don't want to pay are workers fairly and now we want to take away benefits that help them get by. When they complain we attack them saying "it's your fault, you spent money on frivolous things like a trip to the movies with your family or a new low end TV. How dare you try and find any happiness or enjoyment out of life! BRB I gotta go jump on my private Jet to the Bahamas".

C) The average CEO salary is 11.5 million dollars. You can argue that they keep a company running, but it goes both ways, without the workers underneath you their is no company to run.

You guys don't seem to understand. Not everyone has the knowledge or the skill to move up in a company or start their own business. That doesn't mean they don't work hard. Besides, there aren't enough upper management jobs to go around for everyone. On paper it seems nice but it doesn't work in reality.

Minimum wage in New York is 6.25, that is about 900 a month after taxes

The average cost of an apartment is $2800, minimum wage doesn't even cover a third of the rent.

Again it's not about asking for a hand out, it's about getting a fair share.

The rich get rich by taking advantage of the poor, because they know they can. They say it's about their bottom line and making a profit, but all they really care about is lining their own pockets. The government couldn't do anything about it, even if they wanted to, because we'd just lose more jobs to countries with cheaper labor.

but are we really any better then they are? We don't want to pay are workers fairly and now we want to take away benefits that help them get by. When they complain we attack them saying "it's your fault, you spent money on frivolous things like a trip to the movies with your family or a new low end TV. How dare you try and find any happiness or enjoyment out of life! BRB I gotta go jump on my private Jet to the Bahamas".

The average CEO salary is 11.5 million dollars. You can argue that they keep a company running, but it goes both ways, without the workers underneath you their is no company to run.

C) Except it's a lot harder to be a CEO then it is to be a worker.  It's hard as hell to find a good CEO to the point where you can make a bunch of money on the pretext of being good... while as you said... there are more then enough workers.  Either here or another country.

The problem has nothing to do with the rich, and everything to do with labor being so cheap.  Back in the day, quality intellegent america labor was worth a LOT,  now it isn't.

Why?  It ain't got nothing to do with companies... it's got everything to do with consumers. 

Nobody wants to pay a premium for quality labor and quality products anymore.   Everyone would rather by the cheap Wal-mart style brands... or when they do buy expensive brands in stuff like shoes, it's for the look, not the quality.

We're moving from a Labor intensive value market to an info/knowlege intensive market.

CEOs get lucky to a certain degree, based upon a decent number of factors they have little to no control over.  They also have a board they do have to answer to, and unless you have a cult of personality around you, the way Jobs did, you end up playing politics and the decisions the company makes comes out of the collective decision making of the board.  This decent number of factors they have little to no control over will cause a CEO to be seen as a darling one time, then a few years later, end up being seen as a goat.  Carly F of HP went from hero to goat in a few years, because decisions she made happened to not pan out, although they seemed to be smart at the time.

On the later point, in an information based economy everything scales to a very large degree.  The internet makes it so either it is feast or famine.

A) Not everyone has the knowledge or skill to move up or start their own buisness... but everyone has the oppurtunity and ability to get that knowledge and skill.

B)  That's why you commute to work from cheaper outter areas.  The problem isn't that we don't want to pay workers fairly... it's that we don't want to pay workers fairly because the value of many kinds of labor is very low to the point of it being seen as below what we would like to see people work.  Most people who are getting paid minium wage crazy enough are getting overpaid, that's why minium wage exists.  So companies are forced to overpay for labor because we think people should deserve a minium amount of money for their time even if their time isn't worth that in market value.

C) Except it's a lot harder to be a CEO then it is to be a worker.  It's hard as hell to find a good CEO to the point where you can make a bunch of money on the pretext of being good... while as you said... there are more then enough workers.  Either here or another country.

The problem has nothing to do with the rich, and everything to do with labor being so cheap.  Back in the day, quality intellegent america labor was worth a LOT,  now it isn't.

Why?  It ain't got nothing to do with companies... it's got everything to do with consumers. 

Nobody wants to pay a premium for quality labor and quality products anymore.   Everyone would rather by the cheap Wal-mart style brands... or when they do buy expensive brands in stuff like shoes, it's for the look, not the quality.

We're moving from a Labor intensive value market to an info/knowlege intensive market.

I heard today the top 5-6 tech companies employ less people then 1/3rd the workforce of GM in the 1980's.

The middleclass isn't shrinking because of corporate greed or anti-middleclass laws or anything like that.

The middle class is shrinking because the old middleclass jobs aren't viable anymore, and the new middleclass jobs don't support as many people and require more thinking.

A) Not everyone has the knowledge or skill to move up or start their own buisness... but everyone has the oppurtunity and ability to get that knowledge and skill.

B)  That's why you commute to work from cheaper outter areas.  The problem isn't that we don't want to pay workers fairly... it's that we don't want to pay workers fairly because the value of many kinds of labor is very low to the point of it being seen as below what we would like to see people work.  Most people who are getting paid minium wage crazy enough are getting overpaid, that's why minium wage exists.  So companies are forced to overpay for labor because we think people should deserve a minium amount of money for their time even if their time isn't worth that in market value.

C) Except it's a lot harder to be a CEO then it is to be a worker.  It's hard as hell to find a good CEO to the point where you can make a bunch of money on the pretext of being good... while as you said... there are more then enough workers.  Either here or another country.

The problem has nothing to do with the rich, and everything to do with labor being so cheap.  Back in the day, quality intellegent america labor was worth a LOT,  now it isn't.

Why?  It ain't got nothing to do with companies... it's got everything to do with consumers. 

Nobody wants to pay a premium for quality labor and quality products anymore.   Everyone would rather by the cheap Wal-mart style brands... or when they do buy expensive brands in stuff like shoes, it's for the look, not the quality.

We're moving from a Labor intensive value market to an info/knowlege intensive market.

I heard today the top 5-6 tech companies employ less people then 1/3rd the workforce of GM in the 1980's.

The middleclass isn't shrinking because of corporate greed or anti-middleclass laws or anything like that.

The middle class is shrinking because the old middleclass jobs aren't viable anymore, and the new middleclass jobs don't support as many people and require more thinking.

@bolded

There is and always will be a differential market.Why? Because there is something called VALUE. Value is not just about quality labour. For example, Low valued, overpaid labour can still produce products that sells at a premium because a lot of customers see value in them, and still make more profit than selling at low cost. Their quality may not be premium, but their prices certainly are. These companies set their prices according to maximum value instead of the old price setting  "cost + mark-up" where the lower the cost the higher the profit. Consumers are not naive to base their buying decisions on cost only, even in this tough economic environment.  Is  it wrong to challenge these bigwigs to seek more value, innovative products instead of just slashing labour or attacking the minimum wage legislations.

How large is the differential market, though? Somehow, I don't think its large enough to satiate employment for every low-skilled worker that needs overpaid.