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Forums - Gaming Discussion - If you want one of the big 3 to go the way of Sega, or want your preferred company to monopolize...

o_O.Q on 19 September 2011
Roma said:
o_O.Q said:
Roma said:
o_O.Q said:
Immortal said:
oniyide said:

what makes you think the other 2 will do so intentionally? Anyone can do unintentional harm to the industry, it will still be harm. PS was going to be an add-on. Sega already did that with the Sega CD, a while ago. How come Sega did not seem to have any issues?? or Atari or whoever made 3DO? Why did they stick with catridges all the way up to GC?? Nintendo, the video game producer couldnt get the CDs right?? Im not buying it. Still doesnt explain why they use minidisc for GC that put them at a disadvantage against PS Xbox

Online. I could see how that could be possible, but again this is NInty, I expected them to try harder, they could have had a better online and still do their motion or whatever, not say "screw it". Plus they could have updated through the years just like MS and Sony did. And their flippant attitude toward online doesnt help their case.

Its because of competition that the Wii was even made. YOu think Ninty would have even tried anything like Wii if they were not getting their asses kicked. They could not defeat MS and Sony in the hardware race so they decided to go a completly different route, OR maybe they would have made it anyway (like Sony made that eyetoy), im leaning more toward the former, but since we dont have access to an alternate universe, we could just assume

I believe I mentioned this in my original post. It's called adding Bluray to the PS3. A $600, heavily lossmaking, hell-to-develop-for console is pretty much a murder attempt at the industry.

And, for your second statement, you should realize that there's only so much we can prevent. Companies will do what they want. It may or may not harm the industry. You don't know until you try. The thing is, with MS and Sony, we know there are some times that they will intentionally try to kill the industry because it's still good for them. On top of that, they'll still make the normal mistakes that Nintendo makes. Meaning that, in all likelihood, a higher proprtion of decisions that harm the industry occurs with them in important video game-related positions.

As far as your accusation against Nintendo goes, you've got to be joking. Nintendo's research on the Playstation goes back as far as 1986 according to Wikipedia. If you haven't noticed, Nintendo has a history of waiting to get things right for their successful consoles (GBC came way after colour was common, for example) with the VB as the only real exception. They were going to do it with the SNES-CD. It didn't work. Playstation happened and destroyed their monopoly. They tried it with Philips. CDi happened, making Nintendo franchises a joke. They tried twice, even with horrible reprecussions the first time. Even with the limitless CD-based failures preceding it (I thank you for mentioning Sega CD and 3DO here). They were trying too hard, almost.

And your hate for mini-DVDs is completely unjustified. They weren't particularly inferior to normal ones, not enough to make GC less powerful than the PS2, at least. They were just avoiding unnecessary DVD licensing issues, or something to that effect, which is not shocking considering the whole drama with PS eating them alive. These were in fact better in some ways. Harder to pirate, apparently.

As for Wii's online, nobody was ever going to buy Wii for its online. Ever. It was doomed to be technically worse from the start. Anything else would have driven Nintendo bankrupt. Think from Nintendo's perspective here. Why the hell should I bother to work on online at all? If I don't, people say, "Wii has worse online than others". If I do, people say, "Wii has worse online than others". The reason they haven't bothered afterwards is because it won't help. Those who want the best online experience will necessarily go to the competition because Nintendo can't possibly better them at this point.

Now, while the last part is true, you should realize that the Wii was a random, unexpected move. The bad publicity it got before/near launch is evidence of that. Nintendo did it, but it was clearly an abnormal result of competition. An exception to the rule, almost. Plus, in this alternate, Nintendo-dominating universe, think of what the Wii would be like. I mean, as RolStoppable said, the GBA is a fantastic example to go by. A console with good specs, Wii-plus online, better control, all of Wii's non-motion-oriented fun games and likely a "Wii add-on" somewhere down the line, starting with some ~$299 as its launch price. By the end of its life, it would pretty much be better than the Wii. That doesn't look bad to me at all.

 

By the way, any of the non-opinion information I posted comes from Wikipedia. If I'm factually wrong, I am not to blame, :P.

 "It's called adding Bluray to the PS3"

isn't nintendo adding it to the wii u?

Why would Nintendo add blue ray? That’s like helping them against themselves :P

 

They have another DVD type

 

OT: I think it is good with competition or ells the prices would be too high

as far as i know bluray discs max out at 9 gigs.... nintendo's new console apparently uses discs with 25 gigs of space... this leads me to believe they are at least using something derived from bluray discs

source

"Last week, Nintendo presented its new Wii U gaming console at the Electronics Entertainment Expo (E3 Expo). Beyond the innovative possibilities of Wii U’s new controller, the system will not use standard DVDs or Blu-rays; however, the games will still be released on optical media.

This news should not come as a surprise since Nintendo has always opted to use their own special optical media. Nintendo was the last major gaming company to change over from cartridges to optical media and has been using their special type ever since."

that doesn't specify if it is indeed derived from blurays or dvds or not... as far as i know ( i could be wrong ) the discs used in the wii were derived from dvds



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oniyide on 19 September 2011
RolStoppable said:
oniyide said:
RolStoppable said:
oniyide said:

As for the CD part, IMHO it would have made them look better by saying CDs was a good thing and not trying to down it, especially since they still tried to add a disc drive later and didnt work.  Kinda like how Sony crapped on motion control and then added some sixaxis crap at the last minues and gave us a souped up wiimote later. They both look foolish.

The 64DD didn't use regular optical media and was announced in November 2005, several months before the Nintendo 64 launched. Eventually it was released in the same form it was announced to be, so this isn't comparable with Sony's Sixaxis and Move at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64DD

fair enough on Move, but sixaxis was announced prior to PS3's release

You already conceded (look at the bolded part) that Sony talked down motion controls and then added Sixaxis controls in retaliation to the Nintendo Revolution controller.


And Ninty talked down CDs and added a DD to N64 and used it for GC and Wii. And they talked down online 



Moren on 19 September 2011

Competition.
When Nintendo lacks competition and dominates, they screw up so bad, I mean, SO BAD, that it hurts them and their loyal customers.
However, when they are in trouble, they are in their strongest point.



oniyide on 20 September 2011
RolStoppable said:
oniyide said:
RolStoppable said:
oniyide said:
RolStoppable said:
oniyide said:

As for the CD part, IMHO it would have made them look better by saying CDs was a good thing and not trying to down it, especially since they still tried to add a disc drive later and didnt work.  Kinda like how Sony crapped on motion control and then added some sixaxis crap at the last minues and gave us a souped up wiimote later. They both look foolish.

 


And Ninty talked down CDs and added a DD to N64 and used it for GC and Wii. And they talked down online 

Read your initial statement again. The argument here is about hypocrisy. Talking something down only to later on add it to your own system.

Sony was guilty of this and we both agree on it. "Wiimote is a gimmick" etc. and a couple of years later they release a look alike with the Move.

But Nintendo talked down CDs and didn't add CDs later on. If you cared to read the summary about the 64DD, then you would know that it didn't use CD-ROMs and was never planned to use them. It used another form of optical media that was rewritable, so we are looking at a significant difference here. Likewise, the GC didn't use CDs either, nor did the Wii. When Nintendo talked down CDs their main point always was loading times (it sure wasn't storage capacity or manufacturing costs). The smaller discs of the GC basically eliminated loading times, provided the programmers knew what they were doing. The launch title Luigi's Mansion demonstrated this as well as pretty much all other GC games that were developed by EAD who are Nintendo's main force and as such have the biggest influence on Nintendo's hardware design. Same on the Wii, games developed by EAD usually have no loading screens.

In the end you are looking at the opposite of hypocrisy here and that is consistence.

Regarding online which wasn't part of the original argument, I have an idea what statement you are refering to and it's just another instance of SMS (selective memory syndrome), like so often when it comes to Nintendo's history. Only one line is remembered ("Customers do not want online games."), but the context is not. Read more here. If you weren't refering to this particular quote, then say so.


Ninty did not want to use any kind of optical disc period. I was just using CDs as an example. They have stated more than once that cartridges were the way to go. Well, they must have changed their mind on that at some point. 

As for online, Iwata said that the online gaming will go away, and considering how popular online games are, (hello COD) he was dead wrong. Or they wouldnt be trying on make the online for Wii U and 3DS much better than it was on Wii and DS



kain_kusanagi on 20 September 2011

I don't want any more companies to go the way of Sega and Atari. In fact I want at least Sega back int he hardware business. I would pre-order a Dreamcast 2 so fast.



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Weigruf on 20 September 2011

There won't be such a thing like Dreamcast 2. Sega never uses numbers for new hardware, just a brand new name, and I like this marketing policy.



/../

fordy on 20 September 2011
Netyaroze said:
The industry wouldnt profit from it but I would. Consoles are cool and all but its annoying to have so many in the house over the years it accumulates. I would love to have just one console manufacturer. Sony for Hardware only MS for the Software part OS/Online etc and Nintendo as a game developer. Backwards compatible to PS1/2/3 Wii/GC Xbox/Xbox360 also with Nintendos Virtual Console for N64/SNES/NES Bluray and compatible to all Bluetooth Hardware of all current gen consoles. I would GLADLY spend 600/700 at Launch.

Sure its pure fantasy but I as consumer profit if one or two of the 3 drops out. As that means less systems. Hardware should be unified that saves costs in Software development which then could be used to improve the games. Also since such a console would sell 200-300 Million units the cost for the hardware would fall like a rock.


You realise that this was the basis behind the 3DO? Multiple electronics companies building a unified console architecture. It didn't quite sell that amount, plus it remained quite expensive despite the competition.



fordy on 20 September 2011

If Microsoft's intentions for entering the console game industry were true (According to them, it was to prevent a Sony monopoly of the home entertainment system market, a threat to Windows Media Center), then I'd like to see Sega enter the market once more and Sony leave. Hopefully the subsequent leave will also pull Microsoft out, and we'll be left with dedicated gaming companies owning the console control once again.



LordMatrix on 20 September 2011

If anything I would say Nintendo should. Their ip franchises are very mainstream and if they were multi they would be making even more crazy loads of cash on those games like Mario Kart, Mario & Donkey Kong. Leave the console making to Microsoft & Sony.



 How our favorite systems are just like humans and sometimes have issues finding their special someone...

Xbox 360 wants to Kinect &  PS3 wants to Move!  Why are both systems having such relationship problems?  The reason is they both become so infactuated with desire while watching the Wii as it waggles on by. They simply want what they can't have.

 Official member of the Xbox 360 Squad

fordy on 20 September 2011
LordMatrix said:
If anything I would say Nintendo should. Their ip franchises are very mainstream and if they were multi they would be making even more crazy loads of cash on those games like Mario Kart, Mario & Donkey Kong. Leave the console making to Microsoft & Sony.


Just like Sega did with Sonic when they went 3rd party. Oh, tht's right, as soon as they did, all of the valuable people who did the right things in Sega jumped ship. So what makes you think that Nintendo's would stay?