Some people don't seem to get that there are two kinds of linearity. The first one is linear maps where you have only one path to follow. The other one is linear gameplay where in order to advance, you have to do stuff the same way every time; you have no choice in regard what to do if you want to advance. You can't sneak past enemies, you have to kill them (or, on more rare occassions, you have to sneak past them but you can't kill them).

Shovelware? You dare call Thief shovelware? Maybe Thief is pretty old already but. It's. Not. Shovelware.

But I'm guessing responses like this were your intentions anyway, no?

this is outrageous am I the only one here thinking he is gonna always find a new excuse....???/

first of there is no such thing as servers for XB multiplayer gaming..... second it extremely rarely go down....

now people didn't demand anything.... and halo 2 is still the referrence (because of multiplayer)... the only thing that people wanted was an XB 360 version of the first one with the increase in graphical quality make sense to me...... and once again trust me the best selling argument part on Halo anniversary IS the multiplayer.... and to go on half life 2.... that game has nothing on HL 1 and yet counter strikes lives on way over HL..... IN EVERY MAJOR FPS TODAY MULTIPLAYER IS THE KEY FACTOR TO SUCCESS..... name one FPS that sells better than a FPS with a major multiplayer..... name me just one and I'll stop posting..... HELL even Goldeney on N64 is a classic a lot due to its great multiplayer..... and once again you are focussing on my optional point when main issue here is you to show me how your exemples are in any way less linear..... like I said by your definition beside fallout NV and the elder scroll series I don't see many

I never said anything about sales, read the title of this thread, i don't care about Multiplayer being so popular nowadays, so is the Twilight books and Justin Bieber, but those are never classics, a Great game is is great with or without multiplayer.

now can we stay on topic please? . we are talking about linearity vs non-linearity, not single player vs multiplayer, or Sales vs Quality.

by the way, Half Life didn't have multiplayer.

are you serious ????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Strike
and what is that???? come on man..... and you are the one that went on multiplayer.... and  a good game classic can be due to multiplayer.... go tell that to WOW players, hell DIABLO 2..... and even linear or non linear.... it all depends on the intend of the devs.... if they did what they wanted and executed it well it gonna work in most cases.... now that you like it or not doesn't diminish the fact that some of the biggest classics are uber linear.... mostly because technology back then didn't allow that much freedom....

I asked you plenty of times to show me how hitman or deus ex is any less linear than ass creed or mass effect ??? I mean being able to go the left behind his back go straight at him or just not entering a room is exactly the option you have in ME or AC.....once again I'm not really arguing that they are not linear I'm arguing that your example are just as much linear....

I wouldn't call that linearity. That's gameplay diversity. I would be more likely to call what you described as redundant gameplay rather than linear gameplay. I think we're just arguing words though. For me, a linear game would have an extremely limited number of paths, and a tightly structured narrative (no branching narratives/ player choices that influence how the story plays out).

Whatever you wish to call it. I think you should tell it to the OP as well, though, because that's exactly what he seems to be talking about.

yeah well all games have redundant gameplay.... I mean you pretty much limited to do what you can do.... make sense.... even fallout has a redundant gameplay, you can't do more approach than your charter skills.... it's like card games you can only play by the rules doesn't mean that 2 games of texas holdem is the same but the gameplay is redundant....

now I'd agree on the branching.... then again some game are just not made for that.... you can't do that with most platformer, FPS also for a campain I can't see how you can make it so that you can play around attacking the final stage before the first one just because you want... that is way too much work would not make sens storywise and you'd need 5 blue rays just for all the possible cut scene that you can generate depending on your choices.... so yeah I'll say it all games are limited and linear to the extend of the development choices and logic of the game.... but in no way defines the quality of it..... how could it be.... I've seen games on rail being better than sandbox shooters

Counter Strike is a different game from Half Life, it started as a mod , so did The Hidden and a lot of Source games.

stop trying to spin on things, arguing with you is like going into a maze, you can say its a non-linear maze

what ever rocks you socks man.... I think I'll do like everybody else....