lol i find it ridiculously amusing that the very same people that find this thread to be so offensive say absolutely nothing about how offensive this thread was :

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=133368&page=1

You and me both.  

I love how people outlooked my post :

Look it's simple.

You want us to prove the existence of god?
Alright then it's our right to ask you to prove it's non existence, equivalent exchange.

You cant? Well see we cant either.

Why?

Simply because to us a god is not human (unlike many beliefs)
God is the force, the thing, the power that made this matter universe, in which we are all made of different matter/materials.

And yet this is what your asking:

You are asking us to us science, which is THE KNOWLEDGE OF MATTER in order to prove the existence of whatever CREATED ALL OF THIS MATTER.
It's simply impossible. The God, The maker, The force we believe in is NOT made of matter since it CREATED it, it came BEFORE this matter, therefore we cannot possibly try and explain his existence by using knowledge that is ENTERILLY based on matter.

In more spiritual terms, it's impossible to prove the "existence" of god, because he is theoritically the CREATOR of existence as we know it. He came BEFORE existence itself.

To understand this simple concept, you have to stop thinking of god as a human, as zeus, as a old man with a long white beard.


Another important point I want to bring is that, Just because you cant prove the existence of something, Does not mean it does not exist.

A simple example :

Ernest Rutherford.

He proved the existence of the neutrons somewhere in the 1900's (I think in 1920? And I think it was chadwick who did the actual experiment but I forgot)
But thing BEFORE that

There was NO way to prove the existence of such thing, in fact, not many tought about it's possible existence before.
Other scientists probably tried to prove it's existence and failed (I know that the neutron goes all the way back to the socrate era)

It took humans nearly 2000 years in order to prove it's existence.

So think :

During all the time where it was not possible to prove it's existence, It was probably common sense to believe it simply did not exist right?
Does that mean the neutron simply never existed before 1920?
No, the neutron was always there, it's just that Humans never proved it was.
Therefore, for about 2 000 years, humans were living in their own little dream that there was no neutron.
But it was there, even tho it was impossible to prove it.

The same goes with god. Im not saying that someday, we will have the instruments to measure him because As I said, it's impossible to use matter to prove the existence of something that came before matter, which is therefore constitued of something different than matter.
All Im saying is that saying that something (I don't say someone because once again, God is not human) does not exist simply because no one is able to prove it's existence is just plain stupid.
Another example is, Can a computer program (Which is human made, therefore one branch lower than us) prove the existence of humans?
No it cant.
Same goes for humans who are made by god, therefore can't prove him/disprove him.

So please atheists, stop coming with this lame excuse that we have to prove the existence of god, because your own science already showed it's flaws.

And Isn't Science's job to prove theories? So why don't YOU trie and prove that god doesn't exist since this is your theorie?



P.S You believe in god, wether you want it or not.
It's simple, you believe that the universe was made randomly? That is was all a matter of luck?

Well there you have God.
Luck is a force that affect the outcome of something right?
The same "luck" who made the universe is also the same luck I have to hope for when I pay a lottery ticket right? I mean, there isn't many "lucks" in the world, it's all one common force that can affect the outcome of different situation?
If it can affect the outcome of something, therefore it's a force.
Well there you have God.
It is the external force that made everything what it is right now.
The luck who made the universe
That little "hmph" the universe needed to materialize
The force that affected what we live in right now.

God is as simple as that.

I said I based my statements on off commong logic combined with what some theologists like William Lane Craig wrote, combined with what everybody knows about abrahamic God. Yes, my statements do appear to be in some of  the holy books, but nowhere did I said ''I believe it because Bible says so''

Are you saying that unless a person is religious, he cant possibly know of God? Thats pretty illogical. Knowledge and awarness of God is available to everyone, in fact 6.2 billion people are religious, weather or not you want to beleive in him is another thing. God pretty much gave us the power of creating our will, which means if one beleives there is no afterlife/God, he wont see or live trough one. If one truely and correctly does, he will.  Its only logical, wouldnt you agree. And I believe God doesnt want anyone to rely on them at all, unless something is is beyond their power of doing, which is rarely the case.

Because God isnt only described in holy texts. I've read a book once, called ''Conversations with God'' which really opened my eyes on his deity. I recommend you check it out. Its where I gathered about 70% of my knowledge of God

Whoooooah boys, time to back it up a bit. I'm thinking this thread needs a PROPER reboot, since it's been so thoroughly derailed. Instead of being vague, HOPING for things to go the way I want them to go so I can make my point, I think now's about the time I give this thread a gritty reboot, and I make things clear for once.

I do NOT have a problem with religious people, some of my best friends and family are very religious, and I find their company to mostly be delightful since they're all “I wanna do good in this life so I can be happy in the next” types. Religion CAN breed some of the nicest, kindest people in the world, bar none. I do not deny this and giving that impression was NEVER my intention. That said, what I DO have a problem with is people shoving their religion in my face. I have a problem with people who use god or religion as an excuse to judge others. I have a problem with people who go door to door pushing their beliefs down your throat. I have a problem with terrorists who are pushing their beliefs and judgement on others VIOLENTLY. I have a problem with the Westboro baptist church. I have a problem with any religious person in the world who in any way feels it's their duty or right to say “This is what I believe, therefore I must make you believe it too”, regardless of the aggression present in said actions.

I don't like the idea of religion, it's too easy to corrupt and it makes it far to easy to skirt responsibility. That said, if you believe in a god, goddesses, or spirits, ALL THE POWER TO YOU, just keep it to yourself. The moment ANYONE decides to push faith as fact (God IS this, God IS that, God WANTS us to do this, etc), I demand three stages of proof. If people want to keep making grand assumptions and basing their life on it, telling me to do the same, I demand the following:

1 – Prove that God is real, or at least provide some solid evidence to support that theory.
2 – Prove that YOUR god is the right one, by comparing evidence for yours compared to others.
3 – Prove that your interpretations about that god are real, not just baseless assumptions.

If you cannot provide supporting evidence to back up all three claims, then leave your faith where it belongs: in your heart. Do not push it as fact, do not try to teach it in schools, do not run your political campaign using it, and most certainly, do not use it to judge, belittle, or terrorize others. Do not use it as infallible moral guidance, do not tell others how to live their lives, and do not claim that religion has all the answers unless you can prove it.

Faith is an extremely personal thing. I like a LOT of strange things, I like weird food, I like weird art, and I like a lot of things in life that most would just find strange and irrational, but just because I find comfort in my various tastes does not mean that, in any way, do I have a right to push those opinions and values on others. No exceptions.

Man, this topic is still going on?

Runa, this thread is simple: either you just don't get what the word faith means or you don't realize that religion is faith and not fact.

Religion is faith and you cannot prove faith, otherwise it would be fact. It's that simple.

There's no long explanation needed because you cannot prove faith. Faith is simply something you believe, not something you prove. Everyone that is trying to prove God exists is wrong for trying to prove something that cannot be proven and everyone asking people to prove to them God is exist doesn't get that you simply can't.

If you could prove God does exist then Christianity would go from faith to fact.

So, yeah...

/thread

It's worth noting that, in spite of how antitheist I am, I have always believed Jesus (and many figures in the bible) are real people.  That said, proving Jesus was real and was as he was portrayed in the bible is not a strong case that God exists, just that a dude named Jesus existed and he was a pretty cool dude.  Plenty of people in the modern world claim to be the reincarnation of jesus, or claim to be another son of god, but the thing is, that doesn't mean they are.  In another thread, some dude claimed he could fly, doesn't mean he can.  

"Even if God were to be proven, it still gives noone the right to shove any belief into any one else's throught, be it Christianity, Islam, or even Atheism, EVEN evolution" 

Now this...I pretty much stopped reading there.  Nobody 'pushes' evolution, it's a scientific fact until proven otherwise.  To deny that simply because the church has a problem with it is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about here.  Evolution HAS been proven, as well as we can prove it, there are no alternatives that come even remotely close to explaining things on the level Evolution has.  that said, this is not a thread about evolution, keep that debate elsewhere because it discredits your other point when you drag that in here. 

I'm not taking it too far, usually I just shoo them away and tell away, and that's the end of that.  I don't really care about the door-to-doors, they're chump change compared to the terrorists, and the MANY people who start and perpetuate wars over that shit.  

but seriously, Scientific agenda?  you're honestly going in that direction?  Science doesn't have an agenda, science is the collective pursuit of knowledge.  That's not an agenda, that's logic.  the issue is that others (like yourself) claim there's an agenda because they themselves have an agenda and feel the need to project that onto others.  Science is all about truth.  finding facts.  you're turning it into a cult which is entirely counterproductive.  

I'm well aware of that.  The point I was trying to make is that people are pushing religion as fact, and are even starting wars over it (in some cases).  do I really have to reiterate the point, again?  

"If religion wants to be respected, it needs to offer evidence to back it's claims."

Yeah, I really don't want to read 10 pages of nonsense.

I assume you realize that those people making wars over religion are irrational right?  Maybe 500 years ago when people weren't quite as enlightened but today it's hard to use those people as the gold standard today.

Things like evolution can be proven but proving it one way or the other doesn't prove or disprove that God exists.  If evolution happened God can still exist.

I don't really know where your quote comes from but it's simply wrong.  Whoever made it like you obviously doesn't understand what faith is.  I really don't know how better to explain that.  Faith can not and does not need to be proven.