he says that without god ( and obviously he must mean by extention religion ) laws such as not stealing wouldn't exist

"you believe in right and wrong, stealing is wrong etc. These are traits of our creator"

therefore he is implying that morality stems from religion... please demonstrate how i put words in his mouth?

No these things didnt come from religion. God made us in his image and these are HIS traits. Religion is from man, God gave us his word to help understand who he is and what life is aboutJesus never said to the one thief on the cross, "you must get down and do "insert religious works here" and you will be saved. He told him because of his faith, today he would see him in paradise. The thief knew Jesus was the son of God and was dieing for his sins. . That we are sinners and need salvation, and we cant do it on our own. eg works. NOTHING you do can save you, He has paid the price you need to except it and only you can do this no one else can except it for you.

"No these things didnt come from religion" then how were they conveyed from god to humanity?... i was under the assumption that that is what religion is for to convey god's rules or laws... i mean its not as if god himself communicates these laws if that were the case we wouldn't be having this discussion at all

Umm PS3's thread was way out of line and if you read my response and some from other users you'll note that many pointed this out. Also just because one person creates an offensive thread and attacks others beliefs does that mean its okay for you to do so? You need to try and set an example to those who you disagree with not retaliate full force. The whore comments were addressed by Christian and other religious believers. Don't make it sound like athiests were targetted or the only ones offended.

A big mistake your making is stereotyping all religious people. As evident in your comments. I do sometimes say athiests attack religious beliefs all the time, but I'm not about to pretend Christian's and other believers don't do likewise. Does that mean I condone their behavior from either side no.

You mention in your reply "your allowed to push your religious views" I sure hope you are not refering to me myself. I do defend my beliefs when nescessary I also do talk about them. However I do not push them, you will never see me create a thread that tries to force my beliefs on somebody else. Why? Because I am a freelance journalist and attended journalism courses I also have moral standards I follow. One thing a journalist should never do is alienate their readers or purposely offend anyone on their site.

You mention to Dr.Grass that just because your a writer for VGChartz shouldn't keep you from creating thought provoking and intellectual threads. No it shouldn't, however as a journalist and someone who represents VGChartz you need to act proffesionally and follow VGChartz policies. Do you think ioi wants to have his religious members feeling alienated and turning to another site for news and threads? You represent VGChartz and as such you need to respect its user base and its policies.

I mean look at your comment about the users of VGChartz being immature. What kind of comment is that, your a writer for VGChartz you don't go saying shit like that. I don't even say stuff like that just out of basic respect for all the users I interact with. If I called Kantor or such immature or a n00b and trolled them I'm sure I'd get a warning or ban. In the same way if you say that kind of shit about other users you deserve a ban or warning.

Now your opinion. I agree whole heartedly the Westboro Baptist church and some organisations do do shit like that. However you stated this thread wasn't an attack or targetting religious users. You said it was for intellectual conversation, however your comment"I'd happily leave them alone" really says otherwise. So your saying your not leaving religious people alone and that this thread was to call out what you see as contrary beliefs to your own.

I'm not sure what your talking about. I haven't made any insults to you at all. I notice you never quoted me but in your paragraph you do quote one of my comments. I haven't called you any names or demeaned your opinions. I simply stated what you were doing violates VGChartz policies , insults many members and will cause trouble.

Now you say it won't get out of hand. You need to read the posts in this thread, it could be far worse but their are several posts already visible mocking those who have religious beliefs. As I said would happen users are attacking religious beliefs and those with religious beliefs are trying to defend those beliefs. Now I'm not saying its wrong for users to be sceptical and disagree with other users, however to encite a fight between users is. Which is what I was getting at.

Also again pitting science against faith. Your neglecting the fact that scientists have faith too, their are plenty of Christian, Muslim and Jewish scientists who are no less scientific then the athiest ones. You also comment that Christians or other faith based believers in God would behead anyone who questions their beliefs. That is extremely uneducated no offence if you knew anything about the New Testiment you'd know beheading are forbidden and not in any way condoned by God. Infact I know beheadings aren't promoted by the Jewish faith either, to my knowledge Islam is the only one where religious leaders promote beheading and even their I don't think that it is based in the Quran correct me if I'm wrong.

These hateful comments are un-useful and uncalled for. If you choose to reply to this you may want to think through your reply carefully. So far your responses to both my comments and other users such as Dr.Grass have been extremely unproffesional and not thought out. You claim to not be trying to troll or flame bait yet every single response you have given has been offensive and trolling.

Your entitled to your beliefs, but don't try attacking people for believing differently. You claim I'm misreading your comments however every comment you have made thus far points to that fact.

If you have a problem with a post or thread from a user on this forum. Deal with it maturely, address the problem in a post maturely. If you think it needs to be addressed further report the thread to a Mod and or contact the OP if you have to say something that shouldn't be said in the thread.

You mention maturity and I'm not calling you immature. But you say your upset with the post and thread created by PS3. So why haven't you reported it and dealt with the issue. You are a writer talk to one of the mods, also before accusing me of supporting such threads read my responses in those threads. You need to watch what you say about other users or to other users. Then creating an attack thread because you see a thread from a religious person as an attack on your beliefs. WTF, seriously you can't just go around retaliating against every user that offends you. Look at my posts for example, Sapphi Snake and I is a perfect example we get in heated debates all the time, he accidently offends me, I at times offend him. We have very opposing view points but guess what, were on each others friends list and we talk all the time.

You can't retaliate everytime someone offends you. You also shouldn't stereotype everyone who believes in God because one user created an offensive thread.

Not trying to insult you. I'm just trying to give you some friendly advice and also get this offensive thread closed. Its not that I have anything against you as a user or writer. I just think that in this case you over stepped the boundaries and should probably take responsability for that action.

Okay, you've made many high claims, now prove it.  Offer some evidence to support your theory, please. 

Actually no genetic information is ever added to organisms so evolution is quite impossible. Grade 3 or otherwise, darwin did not have the scientific equipment we do today, and if you have read his book "very rasist I might add", he couldnt find what he was looking for. If you plant a apple seed you dont expect or will you find a pear tree to grow. Each thing gives birth to the same thing. Evolution is a religion in its self and you must have more faith in it then in God.

I can't disagree with you here. Buddhism and Hinduism make considerably more sense than every theistic religion I've ever come across, and I haven't even read into it as deeply as you have.

From what I know of Hinduism, the gods are not regarded in the same way as the Christian god at all. They are metaphors for natural forces, and any educated person would be able to tell you this, and would find the idea of a literal existence of God absolutely ludicrous. The thought that he (in his infinite benevolence and wisdom) would tell you how to live your life, condemn you to eternity in hell if you disobey him, and forgive you if you slap yourself across the face a few times and give $10 to the church is ridiculous to them, and as completely at odds with Hinduism as it is with common sense.

Meditation certainly has benefits, and I get very annoyed with fellow atheists who tell me not to meditate because atheists shouldn't believe in the supernatural. Firstly, one of the greatest benefits of being an atheist is that you don't have an enormous, corrupt, profit-driven institution breathing down your neck and telling you how to live. Secondly, it helps you to relax and consider your thoughts, to see things in a new light, and indeed, to some extent to achieve enlightenment.

That doesn't seem supernatural to me, any more than consciousness itself is supernatural, but then what does the word "supernatural" actually mean? Were electrons supernatural before we discovered them? Just because science has yet to discover something does not mean that it never will.

I see prayer as a form of meditation, which is why I am not opposed to personal religion. I am opposed to the idea that one man was right about everything (this applies to both Buddha and Jesus, and while we're at it, Abraham and Muhammad and all the rest of them). I am opposed to the fact that the Abrahamic religions have been twisted enormously out of proportion over 2000 years and their teachings don't even come close to resembling what is written in their holy books any more. I am opposed to the idea that there is any way to live so "wrong" that you will be tortured for an eternity, especially when your heinous crime is loving somebody of your own gender, or just not accepting that a man was the son of God without any evidence.

Really, the only reason that Buddhism and Hinduism make so much sense is that they are fundamentally atheistic. There is no real supreme authority. There is no eternal torture and pain. For some reason, those two religions have not been twisted in the way that Christianity and Islam have into their present monstrosities, seen in al-Qaeda and the writings of Anders Breivik. Do the majority of Christians and Muslims believe those things? No. Are their beliefs any closer to the teachings of the Bible? Not really, no.

Please let me know if I am completely off base here. I concede that you are far more knowledgeable about this than I am.

Im not gonna support 7eyes here because I really don't think Jesus was the son of god. I don't think God would ever want to degrade himself to the level of humans or even have a son(ehich doesn't make any senese what soever. Does god have a wife?) But answer this. In terms of the quran how can a man without any education doesn not know how to read/write able to produce the quran? The book has many things in it (universe is expanding, earth revolves around sun, earth is round, only able to see one side of the moon, etc.) that even a very literate man back then would not know. Answer that?

Okay, I only read about half this post, (the first half and the last couple paragraphs), but I want you to do one thing for me: Explain to me how questioning someone's beliefs is in any way offensive.  you keep assuming this thread is offensive, and that I'm stereotyping but All I've done time and time again is ask people to offer supporting evidence to their claims.  There's a lot of "God is this" and "Heaven is Real" and "These are the divine rules" claims being thrown around, all I'm asking is one thing: Prove it.  

If people are going to keep making bold claims, they're going to continuously tell people "this is the truth", I expect them to back it up with conclusive or at least supporting evidence.  Only one person in this entire thread has even attempted that (well, maybe two or three, but only one did so respectfully and in a manner befitting of the respect I offer him).   

Instead you're just proving one of my greatest criticisms of religion:  they can dish out the criticisms and "we want proof" attitude when dealing with science, but when that same burden of proof is turned to them, they are not only unable to deliver, but also hide under their veil of "Don't mock my faith" and we're left with yet another situation where you can't be honest with religion because it's considered taboo to question faith.  

Runa you need to stop being a jerk.

Rainbird and Dr.Glass are both very intelligent users. However actually naming 7eyes and then making fun of him is extremely uncalled for. Your comments are not intellectual at all they are offensive and uncalled for.

You said that this thread would be a mature discussion. You also said that it would not get out of hand and that I was misreading your comments. However you continue to cross the line. 

Notice the other writers who participated in this thread were very respectful in their comments, so have been mods. You need to follow their example.