this maybe the most logical post in this thread

Try to continue a Killzone 3 co-op campaign in single player, or vice versa? You can't! When I first played KZ3 I played it co-op, and I nearly completed it. Then in order to finish the game, I had to play it in single player....from the very start. nice to see you to lol. i wasn't talking about playing it through to a point and then trying to go coop thats just impossible. i did it the other way around, and i play'd it on the hardest setting available as always for any game. Brutal Legend is no ckae walk on brutal, and KZ3 can be unforgiving. i play'd multiplayer twice and singleplayer twice.

so how was your singleplayer experiance?

How is something so basic like this ignored? This is an example of the lack of polish a Halo game doesn't have. KZ3 is short and Halo i'll leave alone for fear of mod action

I will stand up and claim Killzone 3 isn't as well designed online as Halo or Gears are. It's a great game because the controls, story, and graphics make it so. Online is fun as hell too, but there are some critical flaws which hurt it from sales IMO. after playing KZ3 botzone i new i wasn't going online. i don't know wht happend to the class system. gurilla games screw'd that up big time, so i have to bite a big bullet and agree.

CoD and Halo are both very simple games, but Gears of War is just as difficult to play online, yet it's online base is still huge? I'll agree simple FPS's appeal to casual gamers, and that's one reason why Halo and CoD sell so well (even the map layout is pretty simple). This is why I said public appeal plays a factor into sales. Killzone is hard, casual gamers don't like hard. This is 1 reason why Killzone 3 sales and MP aren't huge, and I think you'll agree with me. greeed. GEARS head till i die uh?

I would argue Gears of War is actually more difficult to play online. When I first played Gears of War 3, my kill/death was 100 to 1. I had no shotgun skills, and Gears 1 is extremly close combat online. I actually put the game down because it was so hard and switched to Lost Planet. However when I basically maxed my level in Lost Planet, and got bored, I tried it again, and it took a while, but I did get better. Gears of War is the only game I ever had difficulty playing online. I can easily go into a Killzone game nowdays and get a 3 to 1 KD. I just have to know the maps and move slowly, getting enemies at choke points. Call of Duty is even easier because of how many newbs there are. Halo gets difficult as you rank up (since it matches you up with people of the same rank), and Killzone is the same. However Gears of War is always hard. If you are having a bad day, you will get a negative KD score, and even on a good day, it's damn hard just to get 1:1. It really depends on how good your team is, and well....damn I cound go so into Gears online, I love it. It's hard, but it's rewarding, and you always have Horde mode for the days you just can't keep up online. GEARS is another stroy. its not easy for some to get use to. its a very talented game. it took forever for me to get use to GEARS it would seem, but once you do well you know. yea talk about to games that give you hell no matter the season or time of day. GEARS is by far hader online, but both can be unforgiving. i'll leave lost planet alone for fear of mod action. 

wait are you saying you died 100 times before getting one kill? man i've had bad days on GEARS. its no walk in the park. my worst match was o and 5, my best was 9 and 3, or 11 and 3. i'm not to sure.

Botzone is nothing compared to Horde or Firefight mode. This is another reason why Killzone MP isn't as polished as Gears or Halo. Instead of fully polishing, and implementing a wave based enemy mode, Killzone has a half ass "sorf of" Horde mode. For games like Halo, Gears, and CoD, it's either in and 100% designed the way it should be, or not included at all. There are no half assed modes. You don't have to play bot-mode, but the fact that it is there, and nowhere nearly to the level of quality it should be is a reason why I state Killzone 3 isn't as polished for online multiplayer as the bigger selling games. yea horde mode is wht botzone should be. KZ3 online multiplayer not polished. but KZ2 multiplyer is, but KZ3's single player is much better. the movement is well you'll have to watch me play. KZ2's control's was just to stiff. 

As for Co-op, I completly disagree. Rico follows you around throughout the entire game anyway, and he is annoying as hell. Also the down system is a core principle of the game. Killzone 3 is better then Killzone 2 because of co-op if you asked me, and co-op is one of the most lacking modes in video games today. Heck I can't stand Resistance anymore because co-op was removed. I think co-op should be a part of every game, and the inclusion of co-op to me gives the game a higher review score (personal score). i agree coop is missing in todays games stuck in the 6th gen to never be seen agian for the most part, but we'll just have to dissagree on KZ3 coop. i enjoy'd it no doubt but it felt out of place.

If I don't respond, it's because I will be away from my computer for the next couple days, but I definatly want to continue this, you are one of the best debaters on this website, and you actually think about things. I see no bias, only personal preference with you, and I love to debate with people who view games from a different perspective then me. your definitely one of the best VGC has to offer, and i've debated alot of VGC best and none out side of VGC holds a candle to this site when it comes to debates. its addictive and my favorite pass time. see ya when you get back on.

I'll second that, I've never thought of it that way, it's definitely true though.

My co-op to single player point was that Killzone isn't as easy to pick up and play. You can't just switch from a co-op to single player game, and I don't think you can change the difficulty mid game and do a mission you haven't done before. agreed

As for my single player experience, I liked Killzone. Well Killzone 2 and 3, 1 was boring. They have a surprisingly good plot for a FPS, mech's and other cool vehicular sections, and it's actually a difficult game. I always play every game on the hardest difficulty selection, and Killzone is one of the rare games that actually gives me trouble. People say Uncharted on Crushing is hard, but it really isn't. Same with Halo, the only thing that makes those games a little hard on Crushing/Legendary is that you are always low on ammo. That's just annoying, not fun. I never have difficulty with 1 vs. 1 or 1 vs. 2 battles, and I usually only die when I'm not paying attention, or screwing around. Killzone is something else on Elite. You almost have to know where the AI are coming from in order to progress. It's a very well made single player game. agreed. i never ot the chance to play KZ. i hope Sony makes and HD version.

Only drawbacks I have are ally AI, and Rico. Rico is just too damn annoying, someone should weld his mouth shut. The ally AI is also garbage. For instance, I was playing co-op one day. and my friend gets down right beside an AI. Both the AI and my buddy are behind the same cover, and what does he do? He runs up to me, runs back to my buddy, and then yells at me to pick up my buddy. He said this as he was teabagging him... lol thats a fuck'd up experiance! i'm telling everyone i know about that. yea the coop team AI is very stupid. guerrilla could have done a better job but they had that damned 3D to put in it and move. i heard all that was last minute. i hope there new FPS slated for a 2013 release pulls no punches and lets everyone have it. the enemy is relentless at time especially during the sneaking mission. blow your cover and you get a knife up the ass.

For Gears, I think my k/d for my first 100 deaths was like 5 kills. I played every game 1 to 10, and usually I had to steal that 1 or something. Gears is the hardest game ever to play online. Even when you get used to the gameplay, and get good, you can still easily loose when you have a bad team.I love the game just because it's so rewarding to get a headshot at close range. agreed. a GEAR head forever. KZ and GEARS are just 2 diferent monsters that are better then the rest. rewarding in deed.

For Lost Planet, I guess you aren't a fan? I love that game, but man is that game unbalanced. If you are good with a sniper and a mech in that game, you can get such a good K/D, but mech fights are fun. i had no idea where i was going and thats all i'll say.

I never really got too into Killzone 2 multiplayer, so you can see where I get my unpolished perspective on killzone multiplayer. However I have read a lot and talk to people, and most people say KZ2 isn't balanced either. Apparently if you are pro with the Magnum, you can get a great K/D. Is that true? you have no idead how happy i was to get the magnum when i did, but it came at a high price. the magnum is a 1 shot kill 89% of the time. i mainly only used the medic class, but the multiplayer seems fine to me. your friends wil have to tell me wht they mean by unbalanced or you can ask them and tell me. each gun has there purpose as you saw if youread up on the in KZ3 before going into each match, and thats exsactly wht they do on KZ2. the thing is you know who's using the magnum when you get shot. wht i mean by that is if its a sniper(or wht ever class) then you'll be able to tell. i'm not sure how but you can. its not something i can explain. i'll tell you about the high price i had to pay before i full answer your question.

i wantted to start experimenting with the other classes more cause i started to realise i needed them based on the situation and i'm tactical.  when using the assult class i only had the rocket launcher and a standard helgan hand gun. KZ was is the game that made me realise i suck'd with hand guns.

(skipping ahead) since most situations had me needing the rocket launcher at based on the lasses i had i new i'd have to use the hand gun which didn't sit well with me so i decided i would enter pistol only matches. thats when i really found out how bad i was with a pistol. dud i had matches where i'd go 1 and 10! seriously?, and its not funny so no laughing. i decided to start sniping with the pistol but becuase its the weakest gun on KZ2 i had to get head shots. thing was going good untilthey figured me out, and after that i was done for so i cheated to get the magnum.

i set up a dummy account and used my account to shoot the piss out of the user, and got the magnum unfortunatly my time with KZ was coming to an end and i didn't even know it. my skills started going down hill as i'd constantly find my self either out matched or even worse turnning a corner and theres 5 helgan with shot guns blowing my ass off. i even lost mcraken 007 off my friends list because of how bad things had gotten.

anyway after cheatting to win the magnum i had a match where i was an assult class and went 12 and 0. but that last round i died 12 times strait so after my 12 death i stay'd in the spawn point and waited for the match to end.

any way back to your question. yes if your good with the magnum which i happen to be (but not the pistol) then you can kill anything with an (89 to 98% kill rate)

I agree Killzone 3 had a better story, but Killzone 2 was great too! I really love those walking mechs. Killzone 2 lacked environment, but Guerilla Games is really improving in the story department. Not sure if you played Killzone 1, but I didn't even know what I was fighting for really. It was just fun to play. yea KZ2 was great in everyway but KZ3 had a better story. nope never play'd KZ1.

Killzone 3 co-op is more in place then Resistance. I mean Resistance 1, you had a random black soldier appear in the game, and during cut scenes he would disappear. It was funny as hell, but even though it didn't fit in, it was the best part of the game if you ask me. However playing Killzone 3 in single player feels very wrong. a games single player should never be hindered by a co-op mode, and it's unusual that Killzone 3 is like this because the co-op is so broken. dito. guerrilla games will get better with coop. i don't know wht went wrong with Resistance coop as insomniac is usualy good in that area with ratchet and clank, but it was a great game. i enjoy'd R1 very much and was always looking forward to the lext weapon. insomniac makes the best weapons. mainly because there weapons come from creativity not some mold set up rewash'd and previously done. i give insomniac alot of credit because R1 was there first game outside platforming. i give them crdit for R2, and R3 is already looking perfect.

The game I feel which had out of place co-op was Resident Evil 5. However if you know the story behind the game, you would know that it wasn't suppose to be a co-op game. Briefly, because of racism issues, they had to reduce the number of zombies by over 50%, and give you a black partner. RE6 will be what RE5 failed to deliver, a proper sequel to RE4. dito. i hated the controls in RE5. they are the worst. yea RE4 was great but i still hated the controls. RE6 delivering? i hope so as i'm not expecting mch but i won't judge before i see the game. yea that racisim thing sucks. i saw nothing wrong with it.

I love debates too, but it's rare to get a good one. Sometimes it's fun debating with an idiot though, they go on violent rage bursts, and when you respond calmly, it just pisses them off more. In the end I just laugh when they get banned.  dito