By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - APPLE to be the Most VALUABLE Company in the world

snakenobi on 10 August 2011
Munkeh111 said:
snakenobi said:
Munkeh111 said:
snakenobi said:
Munkeh111 said:
snakenobi said:
Munkeh111 said:


You said Apple gives you a smooth OS, I assumed you meant in contrast to Android

You can do as little or as much customisation as you want. The UI is mostly the same, but with the benefits of a hardware options button and a back button and extra stuff like widgets. You don't have to fiddle with it at all, you can just use it like an iPhone, but if you feel like it, there are so many things to tinker with

And if you want something symetrical, get a Samsung Galaxy S II. The whole point of Android is that you get a choice form factors, if you find the Arc too long in the hands, get something like the XPERIA Ray which is coming out now, it is the size of the iPhone


sure android is good where it is but the way it is going brand name and popularity and hype behind iPHONE 5 is not going to be good for android

i like freedom,used to say android is better than iOS when an year back but then i used them and got to know,most of the features are good to have but they are useless which i never use.

most people like set there phones outlook as in homepage and ui to be recognizable which apple easily provides.

here i am talking only about the OS not the hardware

 

but even the hardware,Apple has done alot better job in design and utility.


Well Android is now comfortably outselling iOS and it has already lept ahead in terms of features with 4G in the US, and there are more and more phones coming, and the iPhone 5 might help, but within a few months, Android phones will have superceded it

there comes the problem.when there is a new thing,people go behind it but you have to maintain and provide people features that suit them

isn't that's what happened with nokia,they were the first with all features but then went down.most people are submissive and they like to be a part of the bigger thing so android's features alone wouldn't keep them on

The problem with Nokia is that they didn't really do the features well, people have been submissive to iPhone, but in the age of the internet, people are less submissive, they will choose stuff on price and features

also android is growing but lately people have been complaining about it and not that much satisfied with it.you should look up how iPhone went ahead with the verizon launch in the US and how much hype is there behind iPhone 5 and people are wainting for it.APPLE has really created a cult following here

also android phones went ahead as there were cheaper alternative with it but APPLE has identified that recently and is working for it.

Well if they had been complaining, why does it keep growing. Apple already have the 3Gs as their cheap iPhone

And I have no idea what your other points are. I could make my homepage look identical to an iPhone users if I wanted, but I don't. Android provides everything that iOS does and more. The only advantage iOS has is that it gets some apps before Android, but that won't be for too long

thats the problem that you have to make it look identical but it isn't already there it terms of polish of the product.

android is good but its like a PC where you buy the part and arrange it where as MAC is an altogether well packed service provided to you by APPLE.

now here,PC is at home where we have time but when we are going with our life,we don't want that much of freedom.we just want to get things done.that is where apple comes through as it provides a service more that just a product.

the only advantage of apps that you talk about will remain there as android grow but its apps sales aren't growing at the rate of iOS as the market class is pretty wide because of cheaper models bought by lower income families


You don't seem to understand, you have the same list of apps that you get on an iPhone, and the polish is there. You get all the key features, but then you can change them if you want, Android may have been missing that baseline before, but with gingerbread, the underlying OS is so solid that it doesn't really need any customisation to be more than a match for iOS

i wasn't talking about the polish on apps,they are third pasrty so they will be polished.i am talking about the experience.

i know you get all the features,actually more on android and customization is right.its good for the consumer but what i am saying is that most people don't do much of it.

the new android market update is pretty good,that is what they really did good.

its just the business of multiple manufactures just won't work the way it does with computers.

phones and portables are a whole other deal.first is that when ur outside,u think more of utility tahn features and customization and people like to show things off.

 

for example

NEXUS S looked the best of android phones to go against iPHONE

it had well designed hardware,its software customisation was smooth and well done and looked pretty clean as in software,no clutter

 

what i mean is that most manufactures don't do a good job.for example samsung comes out with great tech with amoled and fast processors but their hardware design is hideos.and most of android manufactures do a hideos job with customising the software to their phones.

Well then buy the good Android phones, not the bad ones


but there is rarely any.

hardware manufacturers always fuck up the software part.

 

and most hardware design on andoird mostly show say the phone has this feature and that feature but are ugly.

its like they have not understood that the age of hardware and software  to wow people is going away,they all have to come together to please the consumers

 

lg comes out and says it has dual core processor but whats the use of it?

 

on the android part only one hardware design comes close to iPAD that is XOOM.all others are bad.



Around the Network
Rath on 10 August 2011
famousringo said:
Rath said:
Apple are overvalued. They have without a doubt done very well for themselves but they rely on loyalty to a brand and that is something that usually doesn't last forever.


Actually, Apple is undervalued. Their price to earnings ratio keeps falling and falling, even while they maintain growth of 50-100% year after year.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/09/apple-is-cheaper-at-353-21-than-it-was-at-78-20/

http://www.asymco.com/2011/07/25/apples-share-price-adjusted-for-earnings-and-growth-reaches-new-low/

Current P/E: about 14

Pre- iPhone P/E: about 30

The disparity gets worse if you exclude the value of Apple's cash pile.

Excuses are made about Steve Jobs' health and the threat of Android, but the real reason for the undervaluation is that Apple is growing so fast and making so much money that the market can't even believe it.


Apple doesn't match any of the other major companies in revenue, operating income, assets. It's P/E ratio isn't spectacular comparatively either.

http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/pe_ratio#zoom=10&compCos=MSFT,XOM


Apples in a bubble - it's price is high because investors are speculating that the price will go higher on the release of a new product. Once something happens that causes investors to lose confidence I reckon that the price will plummet down to a more reasonable value for it's assets and income.



Dark_Lord_2008 on 10 August 2011

Apple has done well for the last 10 years by releasing a series of products that appeal to consumers. IPods, IPhones, IPads, Mac Books, etc all appeal to Apple fans and to new consumers.




famousringo on 11 August 2011
Rath said:
famousringo said:
Rath said:
Apple are overvalued. They have without a doubt done very well for themselves but they rely on loyalty to a brand and that is something that usually doesn't last forever.


Actually, Apple is undervalued. Their price to earnings ratio keeps falling and falling, even while they maintain growth of 50-100% year after year.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/09/apple-is-cheaper-at-353-21-than-it-was-at-78-20/

http://www.asymco.com/2011/07/25/apples-share-price-adjusted-for-earnings-and-growth-reaches-new-low/

Current P/E: about 14

Pre- iPhone P/E: about 30

The disparity gets worse if you exclude the value of Apple's cash pile.

Excuses are made about Steve Jobs' health and the threat of Android, but the real reason for the undervaluation is that Apple is growing so fast and making so much money that the market can't even believe it.


Apple doesn't match any of the other major companies in revenue, operating income, assets. It's P/E ratio isn't spectacular comparatively either.

http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/pe_ratio#zoom=10&compCos=MSFT,XOM


Apples in a bubble - it's price is high because investors are speculating that the price will go higher on the release of a new product. Once something happens that causes investors to lose confidence I reckon that the price will plummet down to a more reasonable value for it's assets and income.

Right. That's what I just said. The better Apple performs, the worse its P/E ratio gets. Does that sound like normal market behavior to you?

In theory, expected future growth is supposed to be priced into the value of a stock. Just like the market, you're pretending that Apple is treading water, and not growing geometrically.

http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/net_income#zoom=10&compCos=MSFT,XOM

http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/eps#zoom=10&compCos=MSFT,XOM

For the past four years, Apple's net income has risen an average of 67% per year. You call it a bubble, but that growth is based on real consumers spending real dollars, not speculators. Your assertion that Apple isn't in the league of Microsoft and Exxon is wrong. Apple is already earning much more revenue and profit (64% and 25% more, respectively) than Microsoft, and at this pace, should overtake Exxon in quarterly profit sometime next year.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

Ail on 11 August 2011
famousringo said:
Rath said:
Apple are overvalued. They have without a doubt done very well for themselves but they rely on loyalty to a brand and that is something that usually doesn't last forever.


Actually, Apple is undervalued. Their price to earnings ratio keeps falling and falling, even while they maintain growth of 50-100% year after year.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/09/apple-is-cheaper-at-353-21-than-it-was-at-78-20/

http://www.asymco.com/2011/07/25/apples-share-price-adjusted-for-earnings-and-growth-reaches-new-low/

Current P/E: about 14

Pre- iPhone P/E: about 30

The disparity gets worse if you exclude the value of Apple's cash pile.

Excuses are made about Steve Jobs' health and the threat of Android, but the real reason for the undervaluation is that Apple is growing so fast and making so much money that the market can't even believe it.


Sure if you use P/E earnings ratio Apple is undervalued.

The thing with P/E is that originally it was designed as a metric to measure the value of a stock in terms of how long it would take you to recoup your investment,

The problem with Apple is that they return none of those colossal earnings to their stock holders, so I'm not sure we should be using P/E to measure the real valuation of those kind of companies...

I would agree you have to include the cash pile in the valuation too but once again most people doing so get the maths wrong as they value 1$ of cash in Apple's hand as 1$ of cash available to stock holder and that's incorrect as if Apple was to return that cash, for example as a big dividend like Microsoft did several years ago, taxes would kick in and it would be closer to something like 1$ on Apple's book is like 75 cents in the investors hands.......



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Around the Network
Ail on 11 August 2011

Well personally I do not like Apple and my households own zero Apple products...
I have to admit I like what Apple did several years ago with the Ipod and the Itunes as in the end it led to lowering the prices of music for customers.

However their recent approach in the smart phone and tablet business is going totally the other way.
They convinced publishers to raise the price of e-books and had them set a business model that prevents others retailers to undercut the price set by publishers, and they convinced the whole world population that paying 500$ for a phone or 1000$ for a laptop was OK.

I'm not sure what most people think, but as a customer I don't see a lot of benefit in this.
Sure it allows the company to make a tonn of business but obviously some day customers will wake up and realize that the Apple of these days isn't the company of 10 years ago ( and their constant suing of competitor on patents to prevent them to make competitive products is getting old too...)

I don't get why people bitch about the yearly CoD but are ok with the yearly Iphone release either.............( it's not ok to release a new version of a game at 60$ every year, but it's ok to release a new version of a phone worth 500$ ? Give me a break........)

And I'm not even getting into the 30% tax they are trying to impose on all IPad related purchases. Thanks god for companies like Amazon not caving in and for HTML5 ( you gotta try the new kindle cloud reader on safari if you have an Ipad, it's everything the kindle app was before Amazon had to remove the buy button because of greedy Apple..)



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Ail on 11 August 2011

By the way you guys can stop your apps discussion.

The future is HTML5 and thanks to Amazon it is already here !!!!!



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

famousringo on 11 August 2011
Ail said:
famousringo said:

Actually, Apple is undervalued. Their price to earnings ratio keeps falling and falling, even while they maintain growth of 50-100% year after year.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/09/apple-is-cheaper-at-353-21-than-it-was-at-78-20/

http://www.asymco.com/2011/07/25/apples-share-price-adjusted-for-earnings-and-growth-reaches-new-low/


Sure if you use P/E earnings ratio Apple is undervalued.

The thing with P/E is that originally it was designed as a metric to measure the value of a stock in terms of how long it would take you to recoup your investment,

The problem with Apple is that they return none of those colossal earnings to their stock holders, so I'm not sure we should be using P/E to measure the real valuation of those kind of companies...

I would agree you have to include the cash pile in the valuation too but once again most people doing so get the maths wrong as they value 1$ of cash in Apple's hand as 1$ of cash available to stock holder and that's incorrect as if Apple was to return that cash, for example as a big dividend like Microsoft did several years ago, taxes would kick in and it would be closer to something like 1$ on Apple's book is like 75 cents in the investors hands.......


That's exactly why most Apple shareholders are happy that Apple hoards the money. They get a better return if Apple uses it to grow (which Apple does by using it to gain secure, favourable component supply deals) than if Apple pays a dividend.

If you read the Asymco link, Apple's cash pile is pretty much the only correlation he can find to their market cap, but even that's dipped down below the trend line. It's pretty wierd when the stock market encourages a company to sit on a bank account.

And there's a good reason why Apple's squeezing content retailers like Amazon out of the App Store. Imagine if PSN had a free download link to XBLA. You could buy XBLA games on your PS3, but all the retail earnings would go to Microsoft. Sony wouldn't see a dime. Would you really expect Sony to tolerate that situation?



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

Munkeh111 on 11 August 2011
snakenobi said:
Munkeh111 said:
snakenobi said:

i wasn't talking about the polish on apps,they are third pasrty so they will be polished.i am talking about the experience.

i know you get all the features,actually more on android and customization is right.its good for the consumer but what i am saying is that most people don't do much of it.

the new android market update is pretty good,that is what they really did good.

its just the business of multiple manufactures just won't work the way it does with computers.

phones and portables are a whole other deal.first is that when ur outside,u think more of utility tahn features and customization and people like to show things off.

 

for example

NEXUS S looked the best of android phones to go against iPHONE

it had well designed hardware,its software customisation was smooth and well done and looked pretty clean as in software,no clutter

 

what i mean is that most manufactures don't do a good job.for example samsung comes out with great tech with amoled and fast processors but their hardware design is hideos.and most of android manufactures do a hideos job with customising the software to their phones.

Well then buy the good Android phones, not the bad ones


but there is rarely any.

hardware manufacturers always fuck up the software part.

 

and most hardware design on andoird mostly show say the phone has this feature and that feature but are ugly.

its like they have not understood that the age of hardware and software  to wow people is going away,they all have to come together to please the consumers

 

lg comes out and says it has dual core processor but whats the use of it?

 

on the android part only one hardware design comes close to iPAD that is XOOM.all others are bad.

Well that is your opinion, clearly I am not going to change your mind



Heavenly_King on 11 August 2011

apple sucks!



Open World-Survival-Game Days Gone