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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Critic's Plight

Runa216 said:
MrBubbles said:
too long didnt read


but i do have something to say on this topic anyways...

sadly i find your reviews to be of much better quality than i find of the majority of your posts. i mislike almost all of those btw. i would happily complain about your reviews, if i could find some fault with them. and believe me....i tried.


mislike isn't a word.  and the only reason you started hating my posts is because I disagreed with you about whether it's okay to mutilate a baby's genitals, and you apparently have a problem with people who disagree with you regardless of the logic or rationale backing the opposing beliefs.  At least that's what I can tell based on your responses I've seen, not just to my own posts but to others' as well.  

It's rather funny how you can still be rude while complimenting people.  you might want to consider changing that. 


i hope you didnt write anything important in your post to me because ive not read it since i couldnt get past you stating mislike isnt a word for whatever reason you decided to look the fool.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

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MrBubbles said:


i hope you didnt write anything important in your post to me because ive not read it since i couldnt get past you stating mislike isnt a word for whatever reason you decided to look the fool.

you're a pretty poor troll. If you're not going to read a response, don't bother taking the time to respond just to say you didn't read it. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

vlad321 said:
Scoobes said:
Machina said:

 The only outlet that comes to mind that has a truly broad scale would be Edge (and to a lesser extent then Eurogamer and Gamespot), but even theirs seems more like a 4-10 scale to me, rather than a full 1-10.


I'd add PC Gamer UK to that list, in fact moreso than Edge, although this could be because they specialise in PC Games where there are a lot more low budget titles released. Looking through last months editions I see a few 30s, a 40, a few 60s and some 70-80s. A full range.... and they gave Duke Nukem Forever a 29 (ouch!). That, the quality of their writing, articles and reviews make it one of the better publications IMO and one that most sites/magazines should look to emulate.

I still miss computer gaming world. WHat a nice publication that was while using almost the full range of scores (sure they had like 10 5 stars and only 2 0 stards, but still). I also miss Tom Chicks strategy game reviews, always spot on.

A lot of great magazines/publications have died a death to be replaced by tabloid style websites (although obviously there are a few good ones still). Shame really, but that's the way it is. 



Scoobes said:
vlad321 said:
Scoobes said:
Machina said:

 The only outlet that comes to mind that has a truly broad scale would be Edge (and to a lesser extent then Eurogamer and Gamespot), but even theirs seems more like a 4-10 scale to me, rather than a full 1-10.


I'd add PC Gamer UK to that list, in fact moreso than Edge, although this could be because they specialise in PC Games where there are a lot more low budget titles released. Looking through last months editions I see a few 30s, a 40, a few 60s and some 70-80s. A full range.... and they gave Duke Nukem Forever a 29 (ouch!). That, the quality of their writing, articles and reviews make it one of the better publications IMO and one that most sites/magazines should look to emulate.

I still miss computer gaming world. WHat a nice publication that was while using almost the full range of scores (sure they had like 10 5 stars and only 2 0 stards, but still). I also miss Tom Chicks strategy game reviews, always spot on.

A lot of great magazines/publications have died a death to be replaced by tabloid style websites (although obviously there are a few good ones still). Shame really, but that's the way it is. 

Seems like the whole damn world is headed that way, not just gaming.....



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:


Maybe you missed the part that clearly stated "it's not about matching up with MY tastes." It was a fairly important part of my post which invalidated half of your current one. Unless you meant to imply that the math/statistics are my opinion... which... ROFL did you just try to imply statistics are subjective?

I also particularly enjoy your "speaking to the audience part," is that spposed to be a euphemism for stroking the faonboys' epeen to get on their good side?

You also don't seem to get it, the Normal Distribution is all ABOUT different tastes. That's the ENTIRE point of it. Where at 50 you will find games where the most people think are better than half, worse than half. If I am to pick ANY game at random and do it multiple times, I should end up with an average of 50, not 80 (because, obviously, I would end up with many bad ones, a many good ones, and a hell of a lot of average ones). Basically, any scale that is used for comparisons can be modeled after the the normal distribution. If you somehow still think that this is all subjective, I need to know. It's much better to argue with a wall than someone who thinks the definitions of statistics are subjective.

Edit: Oh btw, the system I mentioned about the stars, all that does is normalize the scores, the whole meaning behind them is still very much left behind and all it really means is that things are just shifted to reflect a PROPER distribution.

I am honestly having a hell of a time taking you seriously, since almost everything you said has almost nothing to do with what I said, or you're making wild accusations and extrapolations based on what I said to assume other things that fit your perception.  

The only difference between the method you're suggesting and the one we have is t he number value assigned to a 'mediocre' or 'average' game.  While that works perfectly in real math, changing things now is just not viable.  What we have works just fine if you look at it from the "what percent of the game is good/done right" angle.  The only difference is one's average hovers around 50 and the other around 75.  It's all semantics.  it's irrelevant.  



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

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Runa216 said:
MrBubbles said:


i hope you didnt write anything important in your post to me because ive not read it since i couldnt get past you stating mislike isnt a word for whatever reason you decided to look the fool.

you're a pretty poor troll. If you're not going to read a response, don't bother taking the time to respond just to say you didn't read it. 

should you speak with your mind and out your mouth rather than just your bottom, i would be more inclined to read your posts.  starting out your posts by stating that a word doesnt exist isnt going to suggest to me that the rest of the post contains anything more intelligible.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

Scoobes said:
As long as you continue to write impartial reviews to the best of your ability then I wouldn't worry too much what others think. You're always going to get some negative feedback especially on the big budget titles. Just keep being as honest and impartial in your reviews as possible whilst always looking for ways to improve your critique and reviewing process. That's the most anyone can ask.


I certainly intend to continue being fair and honest in my reviews.  It's very important to keep a clear head and not let bias get in the way of letting people know what a game consists of.  I certainly would never review a sports game due to the fact that I hate sports games, and on the flipside I wouldn't expect someone who exclusively plays FPS to review Final Fantasy.  

Thanks for your support. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Runa216 said:
vlad321 said:


Maybe you missed the part that clearly stated "it's not about matching up with MY tastes." It was a fairly important part of my post which invalidated half of your current one. Unless you meant to imply that the math/statistics are my opinion... which... ROFL did you just try to imply statistics are subjective?

I also particularly enjoy your "speaking to the audience part," is that spposed to be a euphemism for stroking the faonboys' epeen to get on their good side?

You also don't seem to get it, the Normal Distribution is all ABOUT different tastes. That's the ENTIRE point of it. Where at 50 you will find games where the most people think are better than half, worse than half. If I am to pick ANY game at random and do it multiple times, I should end up with an average of 50, not 80 (because, obviously, I would end up with many bad ones, a many good ones, and a hell of a lot of average ones). Basically, any scale that is used for comparisons can be modeled after the the normal distribution. If you somehow still think that this is all subjective, I need to know. It's much better to argue with a wall than someone who thinks the definitions of statistics are subjective.

Edit: Oh btw, the system I mentioned about the stars, all that does is normalize the scores, the whole meaning behind them is still very much left behind and all it really means is that things are just shifted to reflect a PROPER distribution.

I am honestly having a hell of a time taking you seriously, since almost everything you said has almost nothing to do with what I said, or you're making wild accusations and extrapolations based on what I said to assume other things that fit your perception.  

The only difference between the method you're suggesting and the one we have is t he number value assigned to a 'mediocre' or 'average' game.  While that works perfectly in real math, changing things now is just not viable.  What we have works just fine if you look at it from the "what percent of the game is good/done right" angle.  The only difference is one's average hovers around 50 and the other around 75.  It's all semantics.  it's irrelevant.  

Again, it's REALLY not hard to normalize the broken system into one that works (I even outlined a pretty easy way to do it). Furthermore the problem is that NONE of the actual milestones have shifted as games have shifted towards 75-80 average with an extremely small standard deviation. AAA has always been 90s, it hasn't shifted up. A normal person, you know one that comes from the regular worls where scores aren't as big joked as ratings, doesn't know that either. I can write a whole paper on what a retarded idea it is to have a 0-100 scale of scores with an average of 75 and a tiny tiny variance. One of the minor points being that it's no damn wonder other entertainment mediums point their fingers and laugh at gamers (and if they know enough, the reviewers). Scales exist for a reason, and ;aughing them off is just a very bad idea.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:

Again, it's REALLY not hard to normalize the broken system into one that works (I even outlined a pretty easy way to do it). Furthermore the problem is that NONE of the actual milestones have shifted as games have shifted towards 75-80 average with an extremely small standard deviation. AAA has always been 90s, it hasn't shifted up. A normal person, you know one that comes from the regular worls where scores aren't as big joked as ratings, doesn't know that either. I can write a whole paper on what a retarded idea it is to have a 0-100 scale of scores with an average of 75 and a tiny tiny variance. One of the minor points being that it's no damn wonder other entertainment mediums point their fingers and laugh at gamers (and if they know enough, the reviewers). Scales exist for a reason, and ;aughing them off is just a very bad idea.

Then do it.  I'd like to read it.  As I see it now, an industry where most games are similar in value, content, and quality should certainly have a small variance.  When quality doesn't have much variance, why should scores?  

This is why it's important to have a relatable scale.  As I've said dozens of times, my scale works just find.  90+ are for those exemplary games that get practically everything right.  80-89 should be those games which get most things right but have some minor issues.  The score is based on how fun it is or how good the game is, not based on what others think.  I rate things a bit lower than most people.  in fact, it's very rare for me to give a 90 or more becuase there really aren't that many truly exemplary games.  

My point is that most high budget, popular games are good.  I know that's an odd concept for most to digest, but it's true.  When you factor in ALL games, like Barbie's Pony adventures and various other shovelware, then you'll find that the skew is a bit lower.  you DO get a lot of 20-50% games, they're just not well known or publicized like Duke Nukem Forever was.  the reason you have such an opinion is because of skewed perspective....you're only really taking popular games into consideration.  

TLDR version: most popular games DO have small variance in quality, therefore it makes sense that most of them get scores between 7.0-9.0, but when you factor all games in on all consoles and across all genres including shovelware, you'll find the skew IS a bit closer to what you're saying is ideal.  the review scores aren't as bad as you think. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Runa216 said:
vlad321 said:

Again, it's REALLY not hard to normalize the broken system into one that works (I even outlined a pretty easy way to do it). Furthermore the problem is that NONE of the actual milestones have shifted as games have shifted towards 75-80 average with an extremely small standard deviation. AAA has always been 90s, it hasn't shifted up. A normal person, you know one that comes from the regular worls where scores aren't as big joked as ratings, doesn't know that either. I can write a whole paper on what a retarded idea it is to have a 0-100 scale of scores with an average of 75 and a tiny tiny variance. One of the minor points being that it's no damn wonder other entertainment mediums point their fingers and laugh at gamers (and if they know enough, the reviewers). Scales exist for a reason, and ;aughing them off is just a very bad idea.

Then do it.  I'd like to read it.  As I see it now, an industry where most games are similar in value, content, and quality should certainly have a small variance.  When quality doesn't have much variance, why should scores?  

This is why it's important to have a relatable scale.  As I've said dozens of times, my scale works just find.  90+ are for those exemplary games that get practically everything right.  80-89 should be those games which get most things right but have some minor issues.  The score is based on how fun it is or how good the game is, not based on what others think.  I rate things a bit lower than most people.  in fact, it's very rare for me to give a 90 or more becuase there really aren't that many truly exemplary games.  

My point is that most high budget, popular games are good.  I know that's an odd concept for most to digest, but it's true.  When you factor in ALL games, like Barbie's Pony adventures and various other shovelware, then you'll find that the skew is a bit lower.  you DO get a lot of 20-50% games, they're just not well known or publicized like Duke Nukem Forever was.  the reason you have such an opinion is because of skewed perspective....you're only really taking popular games into consideration.  

TLDR version: most popular games DO have small variance in quality, therefore it makes sense that most of them get scores between 7.0-9.0, but when you factor all games in on all consoles and across all genres including shovelware, you'll find the skew IS a bit closer to what you're saying is ideal.  the review scores aren't as bad as you think. 

I already said this once, it's not about what MY taste is or the next guy's when it comes to the score, for some reason you keep ignoring that. Also an industry where games have a similar value and worth can all be normalized easily, to be centered around the 50 point, not the 75. That is how you have a broken scoring system.

You know what the best part about the normal distribution is? It holds true even if you look at just the "good."  Among the good games there will be ones that are worse, and ones that are better, and a lot are in the medium. I just realized that you may not understand the math behind the normal distribution, such as the ability to normalize just about any other distribution, and I highly suggest you read up on it before you continue this terrible argument with terrible statistics. Finally, I will have to reiterate that this is one of the reasons why gaming is such a laughable part, and game reviewers are more or less the bottom feeders of entertainment reviewers in general. I mean shit, they can't even keep an accurate scale.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835