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Forums - Politics - New Legislative Body - Super Congress

HappySqurriel said:
Rath said:
What you really need is to strip one of the existing houses of most of it's powers - in most other countries it's the upper house (the Senate in your case) that's much weaker. That way you can't end up with such a deadlock between the two.

Deadlock is a feature not a bug ...

The government of the United States was designed with several checks and balances that tend  to result in deadlock when a party tries to do something without support.  It is only a really big problem now because politicians are so worried about how their statements or actions will be portrayed in a 24 hour news cycle.

When you have a major fractioning when nothing can be supported to a sufficient degree, then end result is that the check and balance system stops working.  What will happen when the money runs out is exactly what the Tea Party folk want... except of course when there is no one guarding the borders any longer, or other things they would like are stopped.  Sometimes a feature can kill you, if out of balance.



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richardhutnik said:
HappySqurriel said:
Rath said:
What you really need is to strip one of the existing houses of most of it's powers - in most other countries it's the upper house (the Senate in your case) that's much weaker. That way you can't end up with such a deadlock between the two.

Deadlock is a feature not a bug ...

The government of the United States was designed with several checks and balances that tend  to result in deadlock when a party tries to do something without support.  It is only a really big problem now because politicians are so worried about how their statements or actions will be portrayed in a 24 hour news cycle.

When you have a major fractioning when nothing can be supported to a sufficient degree, then end result is that the check and balance system stops working.  What will happen when the money runs out is exactly what the Tea Party folk want... except of course when there is no one guarding the borders any longer, or other things they would like are stopped.  Sometimes a feature can kill you, if out of balance.

Stop believing the BS protrayed by the media that a default will leave us incapable of paying bills or funding current projects.

Everything already appropriated for is going to be paid because it's already in the budget.  All this debt ceiling talk is about rasiing the debt limit to pay for project they PLAN to add.  It does absolutely nothing to projects already in operation.

I'm sick of how the media and most of the government (including Obama) portrays the debt ceiling limit issue and the possible default.  Damn fear mongering.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Rath said:

Well you've got a very poisonous bi-partisian atmosphere. Neither party seems willing to compromise and with one in charge of each house it's possibily going to end up with the USA in a partial default, the feature isn't working.

Its only default if the government chooses not to pay the relatively small portion of its budget that goes to debt repayment, or doesn't cash in the hundreds of billions of dollars in TARP (and other) assets that are owned by the treasury.

Personally, I see that the checks and balances are working exactly as intended ... When you have an agenda that the majority of Americans are opposed to, the minority in one branch of the government can hold up legislation to the extent that little will ever be implemented before an election is called.



I hope all the assholes who have been crying about the need for bipartisanship are happy. Whenever Republicans and Democrats agree on something it's invariably worse than what either of them could ever dream up by themselves.



richardhutnik said:
HappySqurriel said:
Rath said:
What you really need is to strip one of the existing houses of most of it's powers - in most other countries it's the upper house (the Senate in your case) that's much weaker. That way you can't end up with such a deadlock between the two.

Deadlock is a feature not a bug ...

The government of the United States was designed with several checks and balances that tend  to result in deadlock when a party tries to do something without support.  It is only a really big problem now because politicians are so worried about how their statements or actions will be portrayed in a 24 hour news cycle.

When you have a major fractioning when nothing can be supported to a sufficient degree, then end result is that the check and balance system stops working.  What will happen when the money runs out is exactly what the Tea Party folk want... except of course when there is no one guarding the borders any longer, or other things they would like are stopped.  Sometimes a feature can kill you, if out of balance.

If you're that worried, and you think any solution is better than letting the debt ceiling remain where it is, write a letter to the president and your member of the senate/house and tell them to follow the Republican plan (cut cap and balance) that is supported by 66% of voters. If you believe that Cut Cap and Balance is worse than leaving the debt ceiling where it is let the checks and balances do their job and prevent that legislation from passing. Either way, the checks and balances are in place to support you ...



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badgenome said:
I hope all the assholes who have been crying about the need for bipartisanship are happy. Whenever Republicans and Democrats agree on something it's invariably worse than what either of them could ever dream up by themselves.

At least this, which in no way do I support, will be better than what will happen if they don't raise the debt ceiling.  End result is half the government shuts down, and guess who decides what half operates?  One thing, it isn't going to be anyone elected, or it will end up on Obama's desk.

A nation has to have SOME sort of agreement to a minimum things that will be off the table, and pay for the rest.   What would be better, than on one agree to anything and thing no decisions are made, and then you go into half the government shut down?



HappySqurriel said:
richardhutnik said:
HappySqurriel said:
Rath said:
What you really need is to strip one of the existing houses of most of it's powers - in most other countries it's the upper house (the Senate in your case) that's much weaker. That way you can't end up with such a deadlock between the two.

Deadlock is a feature not a bug ...

The government of the United States was designed with several checks and balances that tend  to result in deadlock when a party tries to do something without support.  It is only a really big problem now because politicians are so worried about how their statements or actions will be portrayed in a 24 hour news cycle.

When you have a major fractioning when nothing can be supported to a sufficient degree, then end result is that the check and balance system stops working.  What will happen when the money runs out is exactly what the Tea Party folk want... except of course when there is no one guarding the borders any longer, or other things they would like are stopped.  Sometimes a feature can kill you, if out of balance.

If you're that worried, and you think any solution is better than letting the debt ceiling remain where it is, write a letter to the president and your member of the senate/house and tell them to follow the Republican plan (cut cap and balance) that is supported by 66% of voters. If you believe that Cut Cap and Balance is worse than leaving the debt ceiling where it is let the checks and balances do their job and prevent that legislation from passing. Either way, the checks and balances are in place to support you ...

Which poll gives you that information? Here's a poll that gives a very different answer - only 28% of Americans support only spending cuts while 66% support a combination of spending cuts and tax increases.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/18/politics/main20080496.shtml

 

The cut, cap and balance plan is one from the extreme economic right, not from moderates, and it's proposed constitutional 'balanced budget' amendment is insanity.

 

@Viper1. While you're correct in saying that the government will pay interest on its debts first (as it is constitutionally oblidged to do) you're incorrect in saying that it will have to add new programs to go over its debt limit. Its costs for existing programs are above its revenues - as such things like social security might not be able to be paid until the debt ceiling is raised.



richardhutnik said:
badgenome said:
I hope all the assholes who have been crying about the need for bipartisanship are happy. Whenever Republicans and Democrats agree on something it's invariably worse than what either of them could ever dream up by themselves.

At least this, which in no way do I support, will be better than what will happen if they don't raise the debt ceiling.  End result is half the government shuts down, and guess who decides what half operates?  One thing, it isn't going to be anyone elected, or it will end up on Obama's desk.

A nation has to have SOME sort of agreement to a minimum things that will be off the table, and pay for the rest.   What would be better, than on one agree to anything and thing no decisions are made, and then you go into half the government shut down?

The executive branch decides which agencies continue to operate once the debt ceiling is reached, and last I checked Obama was elected, so I don't get your point.

This bullshit is way, way worse than the Department of the Interior shutting down for a few weeks. And actually, I sort of hope a partial shutdown does happen just so all the pants wetters can see that the fucking world doesn't end when the government has to actually live within its means for a little while.



richardhutnik said:
badgenome said:
I hope all the assholes who have been crying about the need for bipartisanship are happy. Whenever Republicans and Democrats agree on something it's invariably worse than what either of them could ever dream up by themselves.

At least this, which in no way do I support, will be better than what will happen if they don't raise the debt ceiling.  End result is half the government shuts down, and guess who decides what half operates?  One thing, it isn't going to be anyone elected, or it will end up on Obama's desk.


You didn't read what I wrote above you, did you?  If we don't raise the debt ceiling, the government will not shut down.  Nor will even half of it.

Rath, not exactly correct either.  While we are currently a few billion already over the debt limit for the current fiscal year, we do have funding options to cover them rather easily.  Congress simply refuses to enable them.   However, the grand majority of the debt increase providing by raising the debt ceiling will be applied to programs the government has promised to do but never appropriated the funds for.   It's like telling your wife that will buy her a new car and then running around like a chicken with your head cut off demanding creditors raise your credit line to pay for it.

Watch this short video to explain it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-51rFiljBo&feature=player_embedded



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:
richardhutnik said:
badgenome said:
I hope all the assholes who have been crying about the need for bipartisanship are happy. Whenever Republicans and Democrats agree on something it's invariably worse than what either of them could ever dream up by themselves.

At least this, which in no way do I support, will be better than what will happen if they don't raise the debt ceiling.  End result is half the government shuts down, and guess who decides what half operates?  One thing, it isn't going to be anyone elected, or it will end up on Obama's desk.


You didn't read what I wrote above you, did you?  If we don't raise the debt ceiling, the government will not shut down.  Nor will even half of it.

Rath, not exactly correct either.  While we are currently a few billion already over the debt limit for the current fiscal year, we do have funding options to cover them rather easily.  Congress simply refuses to enable them.   However, the grand majority of the debt increase providing by raising the debt ceiling will be applied to programs the government has promised to do but never appropriated the funds for.   It's like telling your wife that will buy her a new car and then running around like a chicken with your head cut off demanding creditors raise your credit line to pay for it.

Watch this short video to explain it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-51rFiljBo&feature=player_embedded

To cut a trillion dollars in spending within a year would almost certainly throw the US back into recession. That's knocking off nearly a third of the US budget. He says cutting back that far would be easy, but I don't see where that money could be cut from in such a short amount of time.