By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Wii owners continue to fund Ubisoft's HD games

 

How do you feel about the way Ubisoft does business?

Smart move, Ubisoft. 28 19.31%
 
I would do the same, if I were in charge. 19 13.10%
 
Love you, Ubisoft! 7 4.83%
 
Suck it up, Nintendrones! 24 16.55%
 
Ubisoft: "Wii screw U." 67 46.21%
 
Total:145
o_O.Q said:
Galaki said:
o_O.Q said:
Galaki said:
o_O.Q said:
Galaki said:
o_O.Q said:
Galaki said:
o_O.Q said:
Galaki said:
o_O.Q said:

stuff like dlc that can't be done on the wii

Are you going to back that up with facts?

how many wii games have dlc and whats the point of dlc on a large scale without a harddrive?

Now, you're just twisting your own words.

yes what i said earlier was an exaggeration i'm sorry that you took it so literally

Oh. Now you're just playing the shift the blame game.

nope as i said i'm sorry you took my exaggeration so seriously... i don't understand whats so difficult to understand about that

Exaggeration? It's outright denial. Surely, you know the difference between "cannot be done" and "don't want to do it". That's misinformation.

You're not going to tell me English isn't your first language next, are you?

actually it is i'm sorry that my grasp of the english language isn't up to your high standards my good man... from this day forth i shall be sure to dedicate myself to following your example of perfect communications skills

but regardless it doesn't change the fact that the wii hardware is not designed to facilitate the use of dlc or at least not to the extent where devs have felt the need to support it

I



well im glad the wii doesnt facilitate the use of DLC. how could that possibly be a good thing? yes, it makes perfect sense to not only allow but to WANT developers to release us half a game at sixty bucks only to release the rest of it in small parts over the next year or two.

 

nintendo knows what gaming is all about and they know what is important. DLC isnt important, its not needed; its useless.



Around the Network
Final-Fan said:
o_O.Q said:
Final-Fan said:

Your argument, if I can call it that, of "lol I thought you wanted new stuff?" falls apart when it's ONLY the Wii getting these and they're almost ALWAYS trash. This isn't taking the industry in a new direction. It's disrespecting the Wii audience. And the fact that you can't see that may be why Rol figures you disrespect them too.

"I'm appalled that you think publishers are doing a SERVICE to Wii gamers"
1.  no not just wii gamers... but gaming as a whole... because of nintendos efforts with the wii motion control is now seen as a more viable gaming option than it was before companies like datasoft and mattel and even sony ( eyetoy ) attempted to push motion in gaming before but it never took off like it has now

"Why don't the PS3 and 360 get these types of "experiments"?"
2.  thats not entirely tue... i'll give you a few examples - the ps eye for ps3 and kinect for 360 can be seen as experimenting but the difference here of course is that sony and microsoft made their consoles far more versatile and focused on conventional gameplay primarily unlike nintendo

"your very first post in this thread was about how publishers developed for Nintendo "similarly to how they develope for 360 and ps3""
what i said : "you mean other than the games developed for nintendo platforms? similarly to how they develope for 360 and ps3?"
3.  i'm not sure how you misinterpreted that but i'll clarify - my only point there was that devs develope for all 3 platforms... that was all

"And Soul Calibur Legends was treated just as seriously as Mario Galaxy by its developers"
nope at this point i'm kind of realising that just like rolstoppable you love to put words in my mouth this is what was said :
"A true gamer rejects the bastardization of a beloved series" (Rol)
"what makes mario galaxy any less of a bastardisation? because it was successful? because you say so?"
4.  my point is obviously that mario galaxy regardless of being a better game or not is a step away from how 3d mario was usually played just like soul calibur, devs took the motion aspect of the console and tried to incorporate it making it a bastardisation to how the original game was played as rol said

"Again, this is ridiculous. The PSP got a "traditional" version of Soul Calibur"
5.  true valid point but you still don't get it... the psp was always built with conventional controls in mind, however on the other hand the wii from the beginning was mean't to be unconventional

"why was the Wii singled out for the weird experimental version?"
6.  again i addressed this point above

1.  That completely failed to address my argument.  I mean, completely.  Absolutely no part of it was relevant to what I said. 

2.  That is totally off point.  You talked about hardware; I had talked about software. 

3.  OK, in that case, why would you say that?  It makes no sense.  The OP talked about a game Ubisoft made for the Wii.  How could you possibly think pointing out that Ubisoft makes games for the Wii is anything but asinine?  That is why I misinterpreted you.  Therefore I thought you were claiming they put forth similar efforts in developing for the Wii vs. PS3 or 360. 

4.  I think you and I have different ideas of what constitutes "bastardization" of a franchise.  I also think I am not the one whose idea is wrong.  In fact, I challenge you to find one single person other than yourself who is willing to come in this thread and say:  "I think Mario Galaxy is a bastardization of 3D Mario, just like Soul Calibur Legends is a bastardization of Soul Calibur."  You are also wrong about Galaxy being just as much of a departure from 3D Mario as SCL was from SC.  Hint:  motion controls aren't the biggest thing that changed in SCL. 

5.  You seem to think that the fact that the Wii Remote has a lot of motion controls means that every single game on the Wii must be and is a radical departure from the way games control and play up through last generation and continuing on the 360 and PS3.  This explains your general attitude, as well as the way you lump SMG in with SCL; however, it is incredibly ignorant.  Not every Wii game relies on the pointer and "waggle".  The Classic Controller does, in fact, exist, and Brawl isn't the only one that it's a better option than the Wii Remote to play the game on. 

Even if I assume the CC doesn't exist, the PSP, with its traditional controls, actually has one analog stick, JUST LIKE THE WII, only not as good; two shoulder buttons, 4 face buttons, and a D-pad.  The Wii has 2 nunchuk buttons, 2 easily accessible buttons (A/B), 2 less-easily-accessible ones (+/-), and a D-pad.  (Not counting the 1/2 buttons, as I'm imagining a grip that pretty much makes them inaccessible.)  ONOZE there might be one or two whole moves that use a motion control instead of a face button.  What tragedy, obviously this explains why the PSP is better suited for a "real" SC game.  Is this honestly your position? 

6.  In that you said, basically, "because the Wii is the weird experimental console", I suppose you did. 

7.  "Couldn't it have gotten what the PSP did instead, or as well?"
You didn't quite answer this one; I suppose it's because the answer is "yes" and that doesn't fit your narrative. 


1. so what would be a better way of serving wii owners? disregard the main feature of the wii and make wii games follow the same conventions they have on consoles up till now or have the nuts to try something different something new that may revolutionise gaming forever

2. all software for kinect and ps eye are unconventional from the standpoint of controls ( like the wii )... games like eyetoy anitgrav, joyride, kinectimals etc are all from your context "experiments" an even more stricking example is the recent showing of fable 4 which now apparently uses motion as a big part of the control scheme... i didn't honestly think it would be so hard for you to pick up on that

3. i guess i may have been drunk or high or something then excuse me

4. "You are also wrong about Galaxy being just as much of a departure from 3D Mario as SCL was from SC"

true the genre changed but the reason why i brought that up as an example is that i could only assume that by bastardisation he was pointing out the use of motion in the game which was new for both games

5. "every single game on the Wii must be and is a radical departure"

never said so but as i said the console was built with primarily motion in mind this was supposed to be its main feature... what would have been the point of the wii if no third party games attempted motion? if games like no more heroes or the conduit used conventional controls do you really believe people would have seen any point in getting a wii?

6. "6.  In that you said, basically, "because the Wii is the weird experimental console", I suppose you did. "

it was, you're trying to twist my words again but this time i agree... it was indeed weird from the standpoint of it being a completely new approach to gaming and experimental in the sense that motion gaming had never been attempted on such a large scale before... do you disagree? from your tone i'd have to guess you do but if you think about it thats right 

7 ""Couldn't it have gotten what the PSP did instead, or as well?"

You didn't quite answer this one; I suppose it's because the answer is "yes" and that doesn't fit your narrative."

well yes obviously a conventional soul calibur could have been done it was done on the less powerful gc

lol i must say its rather surprising to me the arguments i'm seeing here all i've ever heard of from the really serious nintendo exclusive gamers up to this point is how proud of nintendo they are for having the balls to do what they did with the wii and how original and innovative it is... but now i'm seeing people trashing third parties for actually trying to bring new and innovative ideas to fruition on the console instead of following the old boring route the HD consoles are on



o_O.Q said:
1. so what would be a better way of serving wii owners? disregard the main feature of the wii and make wii games follow the same conventions they have on consoles up till now or have the nuts to try something different something new that may revolutionise gaming forever
2. all software for kinect and ps eye are unconventional from the standpoint of controls ( like the wii )... games like eyetoy anitgrav, joyride, kinectimals etc are all from your context "experiments" an even more stricking example is the recent showing of fable 4 which now apparently uses motion as a big part of the control scheme... i didn't honestly think it would be so hard for you to pick up on that
3. i guess i may have been drunk or high or something then excuse me
4. "You are also wrong about Galaxy being just as much of a departure from 3D Mario as SCL was from SC"
true the genre changed but the reason why i brought that up as an example is that i could only assume that by bastardisation he was pointing out the use of motion in the game which was new for both games
5. "
every single game on the Wii must be and is a radical departure"
never said so but as i said the console was built with primarily motion in mind this was supposed to be its main feature... what would have been the point of the wii if no third party games attempted motion? if games like no more heroes or the conduit used conventional controls do you really believe people would have seen any point in getting a wii?
6. "
In that you said, basically, "because the Wii is the weird experimental console", I suppose you did. "
it was, you're trying to twist my words again but this time i agree... it was indeed weird from the standpoint of it being a completely new approach to gaming and experimental in the sense that motion gaming had never been attempted on such a large scale before... do you disagree? from your tone i'd have to guess you do but if you think about it thats right
7 "
"Couldn't it have gotten what the PSP did instead, or as well?"
     You didn't quite answer this one; I suppose it's because the answer is "yes" and that doesn't fit your narrative."

     well yes obviously a conventional soul calibur could have been done it was done on the less powerful gc
     lol i must say its rather surprising to me the arguments i'm seeing here all i've ever heard of from the really serious nintendo exclusive gamers up to this point is how proud of nintendo they are for having the balls to do what they did with the wii and how original and innovative it is... but now i'm seeing people trashing third parties for actually trying to bring new and innovative ideas to fruition on the console instead of following the old boring route the HD consoles are on

1, 2, 5. 
Games like Soul Calibur Legends were never going to revolutionize anything.  They are just weaksauce spinoffs of whatever franchise (e.g. Soul Calibur) in other genres that the developer DOESN'T put serious effort into and turn out really bad in the vast majority of cases. 

I am not bashing SCL for its motion controls.  I don't remember being enraged at the terrible use of motion controls.  I remember being angry that the game was just terrible and a waste of money.  (Rented not bought thankfully.) 

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that there is no point to making a Wii game if you're not going to exploit the motion controls.  That kind of attitude is what makes developers shoehorn in stupid motion controls for everything they possibly can instead of using whatever controls the Wii offers that best suit the game.  For some things, motion controls will be equal to or better than buttons/stick control; in other cases they will not.  The "point of getting a Wii" is to experience the former, not the latter.

I am not saying that playing around with motion controls isn't good, or exploring the possibilities of the Kinect or PS Eye/Move or whatever.  HOWEVER, that is not what I meant by "experimental".  I meant the kind of random different-genre spinoffs I mentioned in the first paragraph of this post.  (And I'm not even saying that there isn't a place for different-genre spinoffs!  It's just that the ones the Wii has been getting are WORTHLESS.)  Do you understand now? 

4.  No, if that is the only thing you could assume then you seriously need to reevaluate how you read people's posts.  I am quite sure he was talking about what I mention above. 

I mean seriously, I have no idea how you got that using motion controls is a "bastardization" of 3D Mario.  It's not like the analog stick was a bastardization.  ...Or was it?? 

6.  Now that I have explained myself more fully I hope you understand why the Wii being an experiment doesn't justify the kinds of "experiments" certain publishers are inflicting on it. 

7.  What you are not getting ... what you may well be REFUSING to get (or which you will get after this post) is that Rol and I were not criticizing serious attempts at innovation that happened to not work out.  We were criticizing shit being flung at the Wii.

P.S.  You need to learn that when someone paraphrases you it doesn't automatically mean they're twisting your words. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

RolStoppable said:
Doobie_wop said:
Nintendo shouldn't get what they don't deserve, they're probably the worse third party publisher to work with out of the big three and yet people still can't grasp why third party support on the Wii can't match the output of games on the PS3/360.

List:
- The HD consoles sell their games for $60 each at launch, that is significantly more than the $50 or lower they'd have to launch with on the Wii.

- The games people want ported from the HD consoles (Assassins Creed 2) cannot be easily ported to the Wii without major drawbacks. The resolution would make it downright ugly, the number of NPCs on screen would be significantly less, the draw distance would be much shorter and fairly foggy, the AI of the NPCs would be less intelligent, the frame-rate might take a hit, the controller layout would have to be adjusted specifically to suit the Wii remote and that could get janky. People will see the port and criticise it, if you don't want a port then you basically want a whole new AAA game made exclusively for the Wii and then that'd be criticised when Ubisoft Montreal don't have the man power to shift 100 developers to a whole new project for a platform with a history of not selling similar types of games.

- Ubisoft can't make money after the initial purchase, why should they go through the extra effort of porting or developing a new game when one of their largest sources of revenue can't be accessed because Nintendo were too cheap to put a hard drive into the Wii. DLC is important to them, it was also important for a lot of big third party games this generation.

- Nintendo aren't making any sort of effort in trying to persuade these publishers, what can they give? Sony and Microsoft are all about attracting third party publishers to their platform, it could be by funding their games, allowing Steam on the platform, putting them in the spotlight for Summer of Arcade, buying exclusive content, buying exclusive launch windows and just making their platforms as appealing as possible to develop and release games on. Nintendo doesn't make a quarter of the effort and when they do try it's always half hearted.

There are so many reasons why third party publishers choose to avoid the Wii and most of it is Nintendo's fault, they made the choice early on about what their system would be and how they'd market it and they've stuck to that stance for the last five years. Just Dance sells very well on the Wii, Ubisoft have made a legitimate effort to put out good games on the console and none of them have worked out, they're just sticking to what works.



You wanted a reply from me, so you'll get it.

1) Game prices for the HD consoles were raised to $60 to make up for the increasing development costs of games. AAA games on the 360 and PS3 on average cost two to four times more to make than AAA games last generation. Since the Wii is closer to last gen hardware than those of the 360 and PS3 it's obviously cheaper to develop for. Let's say a AAA game sells one million copies, on the Wii it goes for $50 a piece, on an HD console for $60. One million times $10 equals $10 million, that's the difference in revenue between the Wii and the HD game. But we know that AAA quality can be built on the Wii for $10 million while on the HD consoles the same kind of quality takes $20 million on an HD console. Take Naughty Dog for example, they made AAA games last gen and this gen, but the games they developed on the PS2 did cost more in the ball park of $10 million each, rather than the $20 million it takes nowadays to make an Uncharted game.

To bring this to an end, the HD game in this example brings in $10 million more in revenue, but the Wii game had savings of $10 million in its development process. Of course, if a game sells multiple millions of copies, then the increased retail price of $60 really starts to pay off. However, if the game fails to cross the million mark, then the game won't be able to break even, much less profit. Since it's more common for AAA games to sell around one million copies (there's really not many games that cross two or even three million), the Wii would be the better option for everything that is not a guaranteed blockbuster.

2) Here you are kinda setting up a strawman argument, because not all HD games are like Assassin's Creed 2. Yes, there are certainly some HD games that could only come to the Wii in butchered form where the result doesn't resemble the source material anymore (Dead Rising is another example of this). But there are many multiplatform games on the HD consoles that could be made for the Wii without significant sacrifices, like the already much talked about Soul Calibur IV or racing games in general (remember what kind of racing games the PS2 was able to run).

Bringing up the history of what does and what does not sell on the Wii is a quite dishonest argument. In the cases of some genres the Wii never even got a single fair chance to prove itself. For example, you could say that racing simulations won't sell on the Wii, because there's no history of one selling on that console. But how could there be, if no such game was ever made? In the case of Ubisoft, Red Steel was a Wii launch game. By March 2007 it had crossed the one million mark which basically proves that there was definitely a market for FPS on the Wii and Red Steel wasn't even a particularly good game. You also have Capcom's Resident Evil 4 port that also crossed the million mark within a few months. Now this begs the question why were these games never really followed up with anything by third parties on the whole? Aside from Activision putting out some FPS, there wasn't much to speak of. When it comes to TPS to capitalize on RE4, Capcom themselves declined to make RE5 (keep in mind that the 3DS can handle RE5-like scenarios, so it's not like it was impossible to build a competent RE5 for the Wii). EA could have reaped the benefits from Capcom foregoing to make RE5, but instead they decided to make their Dead Space into something else.

The bottom line of this point is that Wii owners did everything they could to show third parties that there is a viable market for any popular genre, but third parties decided to not make such games even if there were examples of such games succeeding.

3) This is tied to the first point you were making and is just another result of the higher development costs that come with the HD consoles. Since it's cheaper to develop AAA games on the Wii, do third parties absolutely need the ability to sell DLC like on the HD consoles in order to generate a healthy profit? Probably not, because we know that third party publishers didn't really need DLC during the sixth generation either.

4) Now this point is certainly true, but it's worth pointing out that Microsoft and Sony don't just give benefits to any third parties. In the majority of cases the decision to support third parties comes after the fact. What I mean by this is that third parties first need to have a compelling product before Microsoft and Sony start to shell out money for exclusive DLC or promotions. Considering what third parties build on Nintendo platforms, it shouldn't be shocking that Nintendo isn't throwing money after their games and promoting them. Or can you think of many Wii third party games that would have made Microsoft and Sony spend money on exclusivity?

The basic thought process behind supporting third party products is this: Does this game help us to sell more consoles in any way, shape or form? If the answer is no, then Sony and Microsoft can't be bothered to spend money either. Nintendo gets behind a select few third party games, like Dragon Quest, Professor Layton (DS) and Monster Hunter. Obviously because they believe that it helps them to sell more hardware.

5) Nintendo also decided what the DS would be, how they would market it and they didn't change their stance at any time. Yet the resulting third party support was very different when compared to what the Wii got. This is a really important piece of the puzzle. We have two Nintendo systems running in parallel in terms of philosophy, marketing and processing power compared to their respective competition, but their libraries are like night and day. The DS offers huge variety and a lot of quality software. The Wii is filled with shovelware and even the playable third party games aren't particularly good for the most part. There's barely anything you can put up against a Nintendo made game and say that they are of equal quality.

I wrote a long rebuttal, but it was a case of quantity over quality and I wasn't all that confident with my argument. I'll try and reply later on, but I'll just say that I disagree with a lot of your points.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

o_O.Q said:
Mad55 said:
@o_O.Q your trippin if you think 3rd party developers put as much effort into the wii as the ps3 or 360.


didn't say that but nintendo didn't provide them with the adequate tools to make their games as they wanted so what were they supposed to do? make simpler games to run on wii and make the more complex games for the consoles that can run them that way you get games on all the platforms.... regardless of whether people want to accept it or not games like skyrim or arhkam city or battlefield 3 etc would not run on the wii from the standpoint of power and also because the control itself is lacking for certain types of games therefore different games are made to run on the wii 

Complexity doesn't make a game good, in fact it's the simplicity that the Nintendo platform is known for. It's not that Nintendo didn't provide the right tools for the Wii it's the fact that the best 3rd party game on the Wii is RE4: Wii Edition (imo) and that's a remake from a last gen system which doesn't have as much processing power which leaves the developing tools weaker; leaving your argument weaker.

By saying Nintendo didn't give adequate enough tools for developers to make their games good you are saying that every single system in history from previous gens didn't have adequate enough tools for developers to make their games good. If this is so then why is the PS2 regarded by many as having the best gaming library? If good memorable games can come out of 3rd party PS2 developers then why can't the same happen to the Wii.  Nintendo DID provide adequate enough tools it's just that most of the developers simply cashed in on the casual crowd or just took the short walk and make half-asses games because the casual crowd just eats 'em up.

The OP was stating concern for the WiiU having the same predicament and rightfully so.



Around the Network
oniyide said:
menx64 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
this is GREAT news! more games for us..and some laughter too! :P

that depends... If/once Just dance flops on both PS3 and 360... 

Why would that be funny?? A lot of people expect it to flop on those consoles especially on PS3. Look at it this way, Just Dance is like COD but in reverse, it just shows that what is valued on Wii is different on HDs 

Reverse in what way? If you mean the target audience then I agree, not value. They are both highly targeted games, one mainly for males and the other mainly for females. I don't think the female audience is as big in the HD consoles as it is in the Wii.

oniyide said:

There some games on HDs that simply cant be done on Wii due to limitations, at least not properly. Hell look at Dead Rising for a perfect example. Not saying it was total garbage, but was not close to the original one on 360. Im not saying all of them, but if your making games from the ground up on HDs, most of the time the Wii version will suffer. GTA4 & Just Cause 2 would not be able to be on Wii

If they would have made a Dead Rising game from the ground up it wouldn't have been a disaster. But they decided to re-skin RE4 into DR... that doesn't work. So if you are making games from the ground up on the HDs, you'd do the same for the Wii, not halfass it and blame the audience afterwards.



@Twitter | Switch | Steam

You say tomato, I say tomato 

"¡Viva la Ñ!"

I think the money Ubisoft made off the Assasins creed franchise alone is more than enough to fund every single HD game Ubisoft made and will make this gen. I sy the Dance central profits is just that to Ubisoft. Profit. In fact I'll go one up and say the profit Ubi made off Assasin creed helped fund Dance central which brought Ubisoft all that money ROFL.



Suits me, just wish Ubi would actually spend that money on making some games I like. They kind of killed the Prince of Persia franchise and I find no pleasure in anything related to Tom Clancey whatsoever. I was burnt out on AC after AC2... and I think that sums up Ubisofts offerings for this gen lol.

They've made some brilliant downloadable titles in the past few months though - which is quite ironic I guess, what with all the arguments about the Wii's technical weakness being why the publishers have so much trouble supporting it lol. Rayman Origins too looks awesome.



As always, one must ask how serious or not a Rol thread is, but, doesn't Nintendo do the same thing? I mean, is not like the Wii Sports game are bad games, but I am sure that Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 and the next Zelda were more expensive to produce!




yeah, im pretty sure assasins creed funds itself