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Forums - General Discussion - Why do we exist,GOD or BIG BANG theory?

 

Who created everything?

GOD 184 41.82%
 
BIG BANG 251 57.05%
 
Total:435
Sri Lumpa said:
Player1x3 said:
I keep asking you, what is this ''proof'' that doesnt allow one to have faith in God. You seem to act like there is some divine reason and proof that makes all faith in God irrelevant. Keep in mind that absence of proof is no proof of absence. You also seem to think that faith is belief in something that is wrong based on evidence, when every person even slighlty educated will tell you that faith is when you believe in something you do not know based on evidence exists/will happen, but something inside you tells you so. And you'd be suprized how big of a role faith plays in modern science

He doesn't claim that it is impossible, only that it is irrational.

Bolded: Faith it the belief in something in the absence of evidence. It can include belief in something in the presence of contrary evidence (like young earth creationists) but not all faith is like that.

Again, I gotta ask

...is it irrational to believe in God and follow science?



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Allfreedom99 said:

Logic isn't something that exists? you must not be understanding me. You have logic and I have logic. We have the ability to give and experience reasoning. To discern and understand. yes, logic is something that exists. No scientific test that I am aware of suggests that dead matter will eventually obtain understanding, and the ability to reason. Dead matter is dead matter. You and I have the ability to understand and discern, because we were designed that way. If we look to Science then a universe with no intelligence to begin it is impossible.

You say I am giving limited possibilities, then what other possibilities do you suggest to explain the beginnings of our universe?

No, we have the mental capacity to utilise the tool that is called "logic". It is not something that exists independently. Also, the question you asked me, which I have put in italics, is so ridiculous given the extremely limited (yes, this is the truth) knowledge humans have of the universe, coupled with the inability to escape culture, and the reality it creates. I don't know much regarding the beginnings of the universe. It happened a long time ago, and I was not there to see it. Maybe sometime in the future people will develop a method to answer all these questions, but it ain't happening anytime soon, and quite frankly whatever answer I could provide you would be an assumption (more or less baseless, and probabyl proven wrong eventually).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Allfreedom99 said:

I'm sorry for the length of this post, but I think it sheds light on this subject if you read what I have to say...This topic as seen will always ignite debates with different belief systems. Of course everyone is entitled to their belief system but ultimately something happened that caused us to exist. So the question will always be asked.

I am seeing some on here imply that the existence of God contradicts Science and that it is impossible for one to believe in a God if they adhere completely to Science. This is ABSOLUTELY false. I will explain my viewpoint. One can indeed believe in God as well as adhere to Science.


You'd be suprised how many people think otherwise to promote their agenda. Heck, the most of important scientists during the 18th-21st century were either theists or deists



Allfreedom99 said:

1. In the beginning there was only space, time, and gravity that existed. From a singular point over an undetermined amount of time the universe began to be formed. (Without an intelligent being through mathematical possibilities and chance)

Eh, depends on who's theory.

Really, normally I've seen the universe starting off as a singularity that is infinitly dense. 

Which you could argue means there was no space or time as we know it.

Hence the importance places on other dimensions we can't perceive or detect yet.

 

Still we won't know anything for sure... for a loooooong time.

 

Hell we don't even know if we live in an open or closed universe yet.



Allfreedom99 said:
Kirameo said:
I don't believe in God. The very concept of a God seems absurd to me.
I don't fully believe in the Big Bang because it's very difficult to understand such a thing.


Im just curious why the concept of God seems absurd to you? Also would you care to elaborate on your point of view?


Hmm. I don't know. I suppose it would be like someone saying that an object is falling upwards. It doesn't make any sense to me. The universe is virtually infinite. There are many things that we don't know. It seems to me that putting a big stamp with the word GOD in it all is kinda silly.

I don't reject the POSSIBILITY of a god. What I reject fully is religion.



 

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sapphi_snake said:
Allfreedom99 said:

Logic isn't something that exists? you must not be understanding me. You have logic and I have logic. We have the ability to give and experience reasoning. To discern and understand. yes, logic is something that exists. No scientific test that I am aware of suggests that dead matter will eventually obtain understanding, and the ability to reason. Dead matter is dead matter. You and I have the ability to understand and discern, because we were designed that way. If we look to Science then a universe with no intelligence to begin it is impossible.

You say I am giving limited possibilities, then what other possibilities do you suggest to explain the beginnings of our universe?

No, we have the mental capacity to utilise the tool that is called "logic". It is not something that exists independently. Also, the question you asked me, which I have put in italics, is so ridiculous given the extremely limited (yes, this is the truth) knowledge humans have of the universe, coupled with the inability to escape culture, and the reality it creates. I don't know much regarding the beginnings of the universe. It happened a long time ago, and I was not there to see it. Maybe sometime in the future people will develop a method to answer all these questions, but it ain't happening anytime soon, and quite frankly whatever answer I could provide you would be an assumption (more or less baseless, and probabyl proven wrong eventually).

It seems you are ignoring what i am meaning. Regardless, we have the ability to understand, discern and use logic. This is my whole point, that the universe would not exist without intelligence. Space, time, and gravity does not possess intelligence or the ability to use Logic in and of themselves. The Universe and life cannot begin without it.

Science will continue to develop using new methods and new tools. Some scientists have tried to take God out of the equation, but in the reality if we were living in a universe without an intelligent being it would be a complete contradiction. Yes there are countless theories and possibilities that people will claim, but honestly IMO the most logical one will always be that an intelligent being designed our universe the way it is with order and gave us the ability to use logic in our understanding.




Allfreedom99 said:

It seems you are ignoring what i am meaning. Regardless, we have the ability to understand, discern and use logic. This is my whole point, that the universe would not exist without intelligence. Space, time, and gravity does not possess intelligence or the ability to use Logic in and of themselves. The Universe and life cannot begin without it.

Science will continue to develop using new methods and new tools. Some scientists have tried to take God out of the equation, but in the reality if we were living in a universe without an intelligent being it would be a complete contradiction. Yes there are countless theories and possibilities that people will claim, but honestly the most logical one will always be that an intelligent being designed our universe the way it is with order and gave us the ability to use logic in our understanding.

Your point is quite frankly ridiculous. Why would the universe not exist without "intelligence"? I don't see how anything you said points to the necessity of intelligence for the universe or life to exist. Intelligence is a mere trait that has become very developed in humans.

Regarding your second paragraph, seems to me like your basic argument is "I want things to be this way" and if facts contradict this view you automatically label them as "illogical" or "contradictory".



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Something else I wanted to add. This may not be the case with all, but from my experience it seems that many individuals who think the idea of a higher being "God" is just totally strange and ridiculous is very much based in what their perception of "God" would be. They can't understand why a "higher being" would exist and why God would go to the trouble of creating the universe, life, ect. and what the sense is in a higher being existing. I think partly they also fear the existence of such a being with so much power.
Maybe they percieve God as some old bearded man in a white robe sitting in a chair in the clouds. Which is only a picture man has given, which Im sure is far from accurate. I think a lot of it has to do with how you percieve who this higher being is. I think the unkown is scary to some people and they dont want to believe such a being could possibly exist, but IMO it couldnt be more evident that such a vastly powerful being does exist.




Allfreedom99 said:
Something else I wanted to add. This may not be the case with all, but from my experience it seems that many individuals who think the idea of a higher being "God" is just totally strange and ridiculous is very much based in what their perception of "God" would be. They can't understand why a "higher being" would exist and why God would go to the trouble of creating the universe, life, ect. and what the sense is in a higher being existing. I think partly they also fear the existence of such a being with so much power.
Maybe they percieve God as some old bearded man in a white robe sitting in a chair in the clouds. Which is only a picture man has given, which Im sure is far from accurate. I think a lot of it has to do with how you percieve who this higher being is. I think the unkown is scary to some people and they dont want to believe such a being could possibly exist, but IMO it couldnt be more evident that such a vastly powerful being does exist.

Really? And do you have any way to back this up? My glasses must be dirty or something, 'cause I'm having trouble seeing this oh so obvious thing you describe.

Also, I'm sure you yourself find it scary that such a being DOESN'T exist, and this post is just the surfacing of your own frustration.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Allfreedom99 said:

It seems you are ignoring what i am meaning. Regardless, we have the ability to understand, discern and use logic. This is my whole point, that the universe would not exist without intelligence. Space, time, and gravity does not possess intelligence or the ability to use Logic in and of themselves. The Universe and life cannot begin without it.

So there has to be an intelligent designer because there is intelligence? Wow, that's a ridiculous claim... 

And how did this intelligent designer came into being? Was there intelligence before? o.ô

Intelligence is something natural... It's nothing mystical!