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Forums - General Discussion - Why do we exist,GOD or BIG BANG theory?

 

Who created everything?

GOD 184 41.82%
 
BIG BANG 251 57.05%
 
Total:435
Runa216 on 10 July 2011
Kasz216 said:
Runa216 said:
Kasz216 said:

You'd actually be quite surprised.  If you've ever been around the scientific journal system or in general study the "evolution" of science... which is better called a "revolution" of science.

Not saying it's as much faith as... well faith...

but faith actually plays a MUCH bigger roll in science then we'd wish.


It's been that way ever since we monetized science.  Well, even before then... but the monteization of it has made it even more faith based since it's livelyhood based.

I mean, in reality, when new theories come out, they get popular... mostly because the young scientists entering the field and taking classes become fans of the theory and acknowledge it.

While the older scientists generally stick to their own theories and go out of their way to discredit it, even when it can no longer be discredited.

You'd be surprised what scientists will believe to keep their funding.

No, it's not faith to believe in something that can be proven, repeated ad nauseum, and recreated.  That's what science is, taking a theory and testing it....and testing it and testing it and testing it to prove it works.  They alter every single possible variable to ensure that the result they got was a result of whatever variable it is. 

Faith is to believe something regardless of the facts, or lack thereof. 

Yes you can believe in science (which makes it sound like it's a religion), but it's not faith.  If you have faith in something scientific rather than following the data, then frankly you're doing it wrong.  There have been errors in our past science methods, but they've gotten better, the scientific method is near infallible now, and it will only get better with time.  Even theories are not faith based, because the whole point of a theory is that it has evidence to support it, but not enough to make it conclusive.  again, not faith, fact. 

I can only imagine you didn't read my actual post... as the point seemed to fly waaaaaay over your head.

no, I read it, it was about theories and how new scientists take to them and make them, I was explaining that even theories are supported by facts, therefore it's not fait. 



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Kasz216 on 10 July 2011
Runa216 said:
Kasz216 said:
Runa216 said:
Kasz216 said:

You'd actually be quite surprised.  If you've ever been around the scientific journal system or in general study the "evolution" of science... which is better called a "revolution" of science.

Not saying it's as much faith as... well faith...

but faith actually plays a MUCH bigger roll in science then we'd wish.


It's been that way ever since we monetized science.  Well, even before then... but the monteization of it has made it even more faith based since it's livelyhood based.

I mean, in reality, when new theories come out, they get popular... mostly because the young scientists entering the field and taking classes become fans of the theory and acknowledge it.

While the older scientists generally stick to their own theories and go out of their way to discredit it, even when it can no longer be discredited.

You'd be surprised what scientists will believe to keep their funding.

No, it's not faith to believe in something that can be proven, repeated ad nauseum, and recreated.  That's what science is, taking a theory and testing it....and testing it and testing it and testing it to prove it works.  They alter every single possible variable to ensure that the result they got was a result of whatever variable it is. 

Faith is to believe something regardless of the facts, or lack thereof. 

Yes you can believe in science (which makes it sound like it's a religion), but it's not faith.  If you have faith in something scientific rather than following the data, then frankly you're doing it wrong.  There have been errors in our past science methods, but they've gotten better, the scientific method is near infallible now, and it will only get better with time.  Even theories are not faith based, because the whole point of a theory is that it has evidence to support it, but not enough to make it conclusive.  again, not faith, fact. 

I can only imagine you didn't read my actual post... as the point seemed to fly waaaaaay over your head.

no, I read it, it was about theories and how new scientists take to them and make them, I was explaining that even theories are supported by facts, therefore it's not fait.

Which again... is missing the point.

It isn't that thew new theories are taken to by new scientists.

It's about how the old theories are clinged to by old scientists.  Even though the new theories better explain the world.

 

Outside which, if you want to go the other way though, while every theory is supported by facts... every theory is also discredited by other facts.

Theories, and even laws really aren't perfect.  Nothing in science is as of yet.

To believe in said theories we need to have faith that the contrary evidence or things that don't work yet, WILL work under the current framework and that we simply don't understand how that works yet.

Which is how every theory works, when one theory replaces another it's because it explains more then the last theory and does it more simply.  Faith in the old system's faults being fixed is removed.

This is a basic thing all scientists should understand.  I'd suggest reading "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions".



SeriousWB on 10 July 2011
snakenobi said:
sapphi_snake said:

What makes you think that there is such a higher power? Have you ever seen any evidence that suggested the existence of such a thing?

have you ever seen evidence of science or big bang

the problem is that you have shut ur mind out.people do that when they get fixed with ideas and the soceity which we live in.if our soceity never brought up science,you would never think like this.

like relgion its just human culture

science means reasoning that everything comes from something and goes into another thing,its just a concept and way of thinking

and if science says we came from big bang and there was never nothing before then it condradicts its own basis.science in the end will have to agree that there has to be be something before BIG BANG in any dimension or form which we may not even comprehend today



Runa216 on 10 July 2011
SeriousWB said:
snakenobi said:
sapphi_snake said:

What makes you think that there is such a higher power? Have you ever seen any evidence that suggested the existence of such a thing?

have you ever seen evidence of science or big bang

the problem is that you have shut ur mind out.people do that when they get fixed with ideas and the soceity which we live in.if our soceity never brought up science,you would never think like this.

like relgion its just human culture

science means reasoning that everything comes from something and goes into another thing,its just a concept and way of thinking

and if science says we came from big bang and there was never nothing before then it condradicts its own basis.science in the end will have to agree that there has to be be something before BIG BANG in any dimension or form which we may not even comprehend today

I was thinking the exact same thing. 



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Jay520 on 10 July 2011

So if there is no higher power, does that make humans God, since we have the most control in the Universe? But that wouldn't make us a God because humans are not eternal..... I don't know



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sapphi_snake on 10 July 2011
snakenobi said:

have you ever seen evidence of science or big bang

the problem is that you have shut ur mind out.people do that when they get fixed with ideas and the soceity which we live in.if our soceity never brought up science,you would never think like this.

like relgion its just human culture

 

science means reasoning that everything comes from something and goes into another thing,its just a concept and way of thinking

 

and if science says we came from big bang and there was never nothing before then it condradicts its own basis.science in the end will have to agree that there has to be be something before BIG BANG in any dimension or form which we may not even comprehend today

 

 

Science usually provides actual proof for what it states, and there's actual scientific proof that backs up the Big Bang theory. I know what you tried to do, but your lack of understanding of the difference between cultural creations such as religion, and science (which actually tries to form a connection with the real world, though culture does tend to set it back), led to you failing miserably.



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Player1x3 on 10 July 2011
Runa216 said:
Player1x3 said:

Why cant I choose both science and religious faith? What exactly prohibits the person from embracing both?


You can, but it's not a very rational or logical decision.  I don't like resorting to similes, but saying you want to believe in science and have faith is no better than saying "I'm doing this test, but a few of these results aren't what I like, so I'm going to dismiss them based on my faith that I'm right and they were just faulty."  the very idea of sicence and faith are opposing.  Put it this way, faith wouldn't exist if there was proof, if there was proof it wouldn't be faith, it would be science.  Faith is, in a roundabout way, willful ignorance, the belif in something becuase you want to believe it, not because there's rational reason to believe it. 

That's kinda the whole point. 


I keep asking you, what is this ''proof'' that doesnt allow one to have faith in God. You seem to act like there is some divine reason and proof that makes all faith in God irrelevant. Keep in mind that absence of proof is no proof of absence. You also seem to think that faith is belief in something that is wrong based on evidence, when every person even slighlty educated will tell you that faith is when you believe in something you do not know based on evidence exists/will happen, but something inside you tells you so. And you'd be suprized how big of a role faith plays in modern science



Jay520 on 10 July 2011
Player1x3 said:


...absence of proof evidence is no proof evidence of absence....


Fixed! It sounds better that way



snakenobi on 10 July 2011
finalrpgfantasy said:
snakenobi said:
sapphi_snake said:
snakenobi said:

yeah religion isn't but GOD is

not the GOD that religion describes but the higher power which can be in any dimersion or form which may or may not even have control over it.

some people who understood it tried to support people through life,thats all what religion is a pathway to next world which may or may not exist.

What makes you think that there is such a higher power? Have you ever seen any evidence that suggested the existence of such a thing?

have you ever seen evidence of science or big bang

do you know what is the "Large Hadron collider"?


follow the conversion and you will understand what i meant there,not just take out once sentence and bang it



snakenobi on 10 July 2011
Rath said:
snakenobi said:
 

have you ever seen evidence of science or big bang

the problem is that you have shut ur mind out.people do that when they get fixed with ideas and the soceity which we live in.if our soceity never brought up science,you would never think like this.

like relgion its just human culture

 

science means reasoning that everything comes from something and goes into another thing,its just a concept and way of thinking

 

and if science says we came from big bang and there was never nothing before then it condradicts its own basis.science in the end will have to agree that there has to be be something before BIG BANG in any dimension or form which we may not even comprehend today


Science doesn't claim that nothing was before the big bang. There have been posutaltions about what exists apart from the universe but as we currently cannot test them scientifcally they hold little weight. Also how would there being nothing before the big bang contradict the basis of science? If you're going to say causality, then that does not necessarily apply outside of the universe.

yeah but science says it was begining point,they conclude how it happened and thats all but science also says that matter is never destroyed,it just changes form so it would have to be something before that a continuing journey