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Forums - Gaming - How is the Playstation Move more Accurate than the Wii motion plus?

scottie on 07 July 2011
SvennoJ said:

 

WM+ measures 3d movement, orientation and distance [but not its position]

Both severely lack games that really make use of their capabilities :(


Not a physicist, I take it?

 

Starting from the acceleration, we integrate to get the velocity, and integrate again to get position. This gets us an equation of

 

Position = acceleration * t^2 + initial velocity * time + initial position, where pretty much everything there is a vector.

 

This equation of course only works for constant acceleration, which will becomae a valid equation as we reduce the time between successive calculations.

 

We also need a way to find our initial conditions. Why not assume that the Wiimote is at rest, directly infront of the tv? If it's critical, TELL the user to put it infront of the tv and keep it still.

 

I am not saying any games use it, I am merely saying that WM+ can calculate your position, which produces just as good results as move detecting your poisition.



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oniyide on 07 July 2011
SvennoJ said:

wm+ can only measure your distance to the tv when you're pointing at the sensor bar, move can always tell the distance by the size of the ball in camera view. Move recalibrates continuously as long as the ball is in view. If not it will still work for a while but slowly start to drift.

Tumble can't be done with wm+. You can reach around and grab blocks from behind with the move, pointing the laser pointer at the camera, something that does not work with wm+. But that's about the only game atm where it really makes a difference.

Minor differences are noticeable in sports champions. Table tennis takes your distance and position to the table into account in gold and platinum difficulty. wm+ doesn't know where you are in the room.

wm actually has a better pointer, no plus required, as long as the wm has a good view of the sensor bar. Move can drift a little even with the camera correcting while wm always has a stable reference point. Pointing/shooting with your hand resting on your leg works better with wm. The minor movements are not enough to keep the move pointer completely stable.

To sum up:

WM+ measures 3d movement, orientation and distance to tv when pointing at the tv, doesn't know where the wm is in the room

Move measures 3d movement, orientation and position with continous recalibration

Both severely lack games that really make use of their capabilities :(

great points, but i have to disagree about the pointer. IMHO the Move is a bit better. i play KZ3 &GE with regularity and i have no issues with Killzone. With GE i still get that stupid red sign, its not as bad prior to me tweaking, but it still does it



oniyide on 07 July 2011
Pyro as Bill said:
oniyide said:
kitler53 said:

yes move is more accurate.

nintendo uses software tricks and assumptions about how you are "supposed" to be moving to make it feel more accurate than it really is. if you are playing something like wii sports resort it is really easy to fool the game and thus easy to demonstrate how motion plus is not actually all that accurate.

move (and also kinect) use camera technology so the hardware can't be fooled. this is why frisbee golf on wii sports resort is a joke but on sports champions a real challenge. sports champions forces you to be honest.  as a competitive gamer, my will to win trumps my will to be honest hence why i can't enjoy the wii sports version.

pretty much this, but its not that different, also i find the FPSs to be a little better, the camera does a better job of tracking on Move so i dont have to make much adjustments to get it toperform the way i want. Contrast that to FPSs on Wii and ive had to have made quire a few adjustmets.

i find it funny how people downplay Move but dont have one or even played it. I have both, they are both good, just wish M+ had half the support Move has, hell even Kinect

Augmented reality also provides experiences on Move that cant be done on Wii

Yeah but none of them are as good as Hide n Hunt on Wii Party which can't be done on Move.

have u played any of those games??? Havent played Wii Party, not my kind of game. What is hide n hunt n can u explain how it is not possible on Move?




oniyide on 07 July 2011
kitler53 said:
oniyide said:
kitler53 said:

yes move is more accurate.

nintendo uses software tricks and assumptions about how you are "supposed" to be moving to make it feel more accurate than it really is. if you are playing something like wii sports resort it is really easy to fool the game and thus easy to demonstrate how motion plus is not actually all that accurate.

move (and also kinect) use camera technology so the hardware can't be fooled. this is why frisbee golf on wii sports resort is a joke but on sports champions a real challenge. sports champions forces you to be honest.  as a competitive gamer, my will to win trumps my will to be honest hence why i can't enjoy the wii sports version.

pretty much this, but its not that different, also i find the FPSs to be a little better, the camera does a better job of tracking on Move so i dont have to make much adjustments to get it toperform the way i want. Contrast that to FPSs on Wii and ive had to have made quire a few adjustmets.

i find it funny how people downplay Move but dont have one or even played it. I have both, they are both good, just wish M+ had half the support Move has, hell even Kinect

Augmented reality also provides experiences on Move that cant be done on Wii

true, however (and i hate being this much of a snob but it has to be said) the resolution and picture quality on the ps eye is too low for me to enjoy looking at AR games.  i hope they fix this for the inevitable ps4.


oh no ur right, i played Eyepet n nice concept but the camera needs work n i 2nd Sports Champions. its like wii sports but with more challenge. i get that people wanna have fun, but for me i want more substance



Ajescent on 07 July 2011
Pyro as Bill said:
kitler53 said:

yes move is more accurate.

nintendo uses software tricks and assumptions about how you are "supposed" to be moving to make it feel more accurate than it really is. if you are playing something like wii sports resort it is really easy to fool the game and thus easy to demonstrate how motion plus is not actually all that accurate.

move (and also kinect) use camera technology so the hardware can't be fooled. this is why frisbee golf on wii sports resort is a joke but on sports champions a real challenge. sports champions forces you to be honest.  as a competitive gamer, my will to win trumps my will to be honest hence why i can't enjoy the wii sports version.


I have no idea what this means but it sounds so hardcore. Go Frisbee Golf!!!


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oniyide on 07 July 2011
o_O.Q said:
z101 said:
kitler53 said:

yes move is more accurate.

nintendo uses software tricks and assumptions about how you are "supposed" to be moving to make it feel more accurate than it really is. if you are playing something like wii sports resort it is really easy to fool the game and thus easy to demonstrate how motion plus is not actually all that accurate.

move (and also kinect) use camera technology so the hardware can't be fooled. this is why frisbee golf on wii sports resort is a joke but on sports champions a real challenge. sports champions forces you to be honest.

There is no "assumption". Perhaps they use something like that in Wii Sports Resort, but it is not necessary. Connect your Wiimote Plus with a PC an look at the pure data the Wiimote delivers, it is more than accurate.

Move on the other needs to make assumptions, because the system can not process the camera data in real time. So Move has a bigger lag than motion plus.

In sports champion you must use more power to throw the frisbee, and some people may think this is because of better motion technology. In fact they could have done this in Wii Sports Resort as well, but nintendo fears that the people may throw their wiimote in the tv, so they made the frisbee controls more sensitive. All in all Wii Sports Resorts is the better game and more challenging then sports champions.

The Wii Motion controls has some big advantage: The pointer controls, because this works with the sensor bar. So the Wii pointer controls are lag-free and precise. The pointer controls from Move are not that good.

now which is the better game is up to opinion but how could it be more challenging if you just said that sports champions requires more effort to play? aren't you contradicting yourself? 

hes full of it, trust me as i guy who has both devices. Their is no lag in either one. The Move does track data in real time, these are just lies



oniyide on 07 July 2011

i just watched a youtube video of hide n hunt fir Wii Party and.... i cant lie that looked pretty cool



SvennoJ on 07 July 2011
scottie said:
SvennoJ said:

 

WM+ measures 3d movement, orientation and distance [but not its position]

Both severely lack games that really make use of their capabilities :(


Not a physicist, I take it?

 

Starting from the acceleration, we integrate to get the velocity, and integrate again to get position. This gets us an equation of

 

Position = acceleration * t^2 + initial velocity * time + initial position, where pretty much everything there is a vector.

 

This equation of course only works for constant acceleration, which will becomae a valid equation as we reduce the time between successive calculations.

 

We also need a way to find our initial conditions. Why not assume that the Wiimote is at rest, directly infront of the tv? If it's critical, TELL the user to put it infront of the tv and keep it still.

 

I am not saying any games use it, I am merely saying that WM+ can calculate your position, which produces just as good results as move detecting your poisition.

I have worked with accelerometers in my work for use of deadreckoning to keep calculating the position of a car when gps reception is lost for a short while. (urban canyon problems) From experience I've seen that that's only reliable for a short amount of time, 15sec to maybe a minute. You need a reference point to correct for drift in the sensors, which is what the camera is for in move. If you cover the light bulb on move it will continue to work but the pointer will drift and after a couple of minutes you'll be pointing way of screen in killzone 3 or dead space extraction.

You have to keep the wii mote still so it can reset the orientation and knows what up, down, left, right is again. It's not setting a point in space (the table) to calculate movements from. All vectors it calculates are relative, it has no idea where the wm is in the room. Sure you can draw a 3D figure in the air and the wm+ should be able to reproduce it on screen, but it can't know your relative position to a ping pong table with any accuracy just a short minute after calibration.

It was fun working with the accelerometers. Although not all that useful to calculate your position for more then half a minute, they were very useful to calculate the orientation of the device and make some fun inhouse tilt based games long before the iPhone or Wiimote. If only we had patented it back then :/



milkyjoe on 08 July 2011
kitler53 said:
Pyro as Bill said:
kitler53 said:

yes move is more accurate.

nintendo uses software tricks and assumptions about how you are "supposed" to be moving to make it feel more accurate than it really is. if you are playing something like wii sports resort it is really easy to fool the game and thus easy to demonstrate how motion plus is not actually all that accurate.

move (and also kinect) use camera technology so the hardware can't be fooled. this is why frisbee golf on wii sports resort is a joke but on sports champions a real challenge. sports champions forces you to be honest.  as a competitive gamer, my will to win trumps my will to be honest hence why i can't enjoy the wii sports version.


I have no idea what this means but it sounds so hardcore. Go Frisbee Golf!!!

too tough to put into words, what the video instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqi2eaY_gZ0   (i don't know who to embed, sorry).

it basically highlights how in wii sports resort the motion you see on the screen is not the motion you have to do.  once you learn what the "trick" is you can have perfect games everytime by giving the controller exactly what it wants rather than doing the motion as it would be natural to do.  it destroys all of the fun but for a competitive gamer like me, once i find an exploit i can't not use it.  move keeps me honest which goes a long way to keep the intended fun factor intact.

The best part of that video is where the guy playing fails to prove that you can succeed by waggling. You need to hit those cans for a higher score, he didn't hit any whilst waggling.



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freebs2 on 08 July 2011

From what I tried Move is a bit more precise in movements indeed. For the pointer functionality I still prefer the wiimote, tought I can't say that it's better probably it's just because I'm more accustomed to the wiimote. Also I only tried Killzone with the poiner functionality, it's something like the Wii the response is very different from game to game.