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Forums - Gaming - How is the Playstation Move more Accurate than the Wii motion plus?

oniyide on 09 July 2011
Metallicube said:

I never got how Move could possibly be better than Motion plus, which is already 1:1, and doesn't seem to have noticable lag time from moving it. Unless you count not having to deal with the hassle of collaborating the Move, which I don't really care about anyway.

Plus, the Move just doesn't look natural to hold, and I will never get over the fact that it looks like a dildo you'd bring to a rave.

you never got it cause you never used it, so in reality you dont know what your talking about, its pretty simple



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fauzman on 09 July 2011

I have move and my brother has the wii so I have played both extensively. The wii controls tend to be a bit more sensitive and touchy (especially in shooting games) whereas the move can be calibrated to a persons sensitivity. This can be annoying to do but overall i think its an advantage.

The greatest difference i have seen between the two is when playing fighting games - the boxing in wii sports is crap and consists of having to make wide swings or straight movements for it to register. The gladiator duel in sports champion is very different in that you have much more control and the camera records your motion much more easily.



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thismeintiel on 09 July 2011
SvennoJ said:
tolu619 said:
 


       If the camera tracking is all that is needed to make the Motion Plus as accurate as the Move is, then the Wii U's camera used as described in my last post will do the trick. However, if the M+ still needs better accelerometers or something else in addition to the camera, then the Wii U's motion stuff will still be less accurate than the PS3's Move and might have to compete eventually with the PS4's Move+ :(

    Anyway, just to add to the list of Motion Plus games I've been compiling on this thread, there's New Carnival Games(30 mini games). Not that I'm interested in it though.

As far as I know the WiiU is going to use the old wii motes. It would be a lot harder then tracking the move controller, no easy color coded sphere to track. It's probably easier to track the player using background substraction and use that to guess where the controller is. That might be enough correction to keep the 3d position of the wii mote accurate as long as the lighting conditions are good.

But how many games would really use it. Puzzle games like tumble, table tennis, but not for regular tennis. I don't have a tennis court sized living room. Probably not enough for Nintendo to add it.

Maybe Sony can come up with some cool (not mini) games. So far the best most developers can come up with is trying to imitate a light gun.

Yea, I think Nintendo said it uses the old Wii remotes, too.  So most developers will probably develop games for the older remotes, as most people have them.  Though, ultimately, I think Nintendo and 3rd party developers are going to be shying away from motion control games that use the Wii controllers, and focus on making core titles that incorporate the Wii U's tablet controller.

As far as Move goes, the only problem I have with it is the resolution of the PS Eye makes for some pretty poor vid quality.  Though, I'm sure Sony will be addressing that with a new camera for the PS4.  I also hope they develop a Move/Nav hybrid so you won't have to give up movement to control both hands.



 

oniyide on 10 July 2011
thismeintiel said:
SvennoJ said:
tolu619 said:
 


       If the camera tracking is all that is needed to make the Motion Plus as accurate as the Move is, then the Wii U's camera used as described in my last post will do the trick. However, if the M+ still needs better accelerometers or something else in addition to the camera, then the Wii U's motion stuff will still be less accurate than the PS3's Move and might have to compete eventually with the PS4's Move+ :(

    Anyway, just to add to the list of Motion Plus games I've been compiling on this thread, there's New Carnival Games(30 mini games). Not that I'm interested in it though.

As far as I know the WiiU is going to use the old wii motes. It would be a lot harder then tracking the move controller, no easy color coded sphere to track. It's probably easier to track the player using background substraction and use that to guess where the controller is. That might be enough correction to keep the 3d position of the wii mote accurate as long as the lighting conditions are good.

But how many games would really use it. Puzzle games like tumble, table tennis, but not for regular tennis. I don't have a tennis court sized living room. Probably not enough for Nintendo to add it.

Maybe Sony can come up with some cool (not mini) games. So far the best most developers can come up with is trying to imitate a light gun.

Yea, I think Nintendo said it uses the old Wii remotes, too.  So most developers will probably develop games for the older remotes, as most people have them.  Though, ultimately, I think Nintendo and 3rd party developers are going to be shying away from motion control games that use the Wii controllers, and focus on making core titles that incorporate the Wii U's tablet controller.

As far as Move goes, the only problem I have with it is the resolution of the PS Eye makes for some pretty poor vid quality.  Though, I'm sure Sony will be addressing that with a new camera for the PS4.  I also hope they develop a Move/Nav hybrid so you won't have to give up movement to control both hands.

I was under the impression that the Wii U would only be using motion+, did i miss something. IMHO i hope they dont shy away from the motion control, i feel they  barely started getting the full potential from those, and not just Ninty, Sony and MS also slacking a bit



oniyide on 10 July 2011

And the PSeye resolution does suck



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Metallicube on 10 July 2011
oniyide said:
Metallicube said:

I never got how Move could possibly be better than Motion plus, which is already 1:1, and doesn't seem to have noticable lag time from moving it. Unless you count not having to deal with the hassle of collaborating the Move, which I don't really care about anyway.

Plus, the Move just doesn't look natural to hold, and I will never get over the fact that it looks like a dildo you'd bring to a rave.

you never got it cause you never used it, so in reality you dont know what your talking about, its pretty simple

Fair enough, but answer me this.. How can anything be more accurate than 1:1 motion?



oniyide on 10 July 2011
Metallicube said:
oniyide said:
Metallicube said:

I never got how Move could possibly be better than Motion plus, which is already 1:1, and doesn't seem to have noticable lag time from moving it. Unless you count not having to deal with the hassle of collaborating the Move, which I don't really care about anyway.

Plus, the Move just doesn't look natural to hold, and I will never get over the fact that it looks like a dildo you'd bring to a rave.

you never got it cause you never used it, so in reality you dont know what your talking about, its pretty simple

Fair enough, but answer me this.. How can anything be more accurate than 1:1 motion?


ah, touche, short answer, nothing really. However its the little things that put it slightly above M+, for me at least. I dont know where people are getting the constant calibration thing from, that is pure crap. I start up a game of KZ3 i calibrate one time and thats it, it is no different than when i start up Red Steel 2 and have to calibrate that controller, actually Move is better in this category because it calibrates faster. The camera adds an extra dimension where i can play games that are simply not possible on Wii at all. Tumble, eyepet & echochrome 2, so i have the 1:1 AND the augmented reality thing going. You can make the argument that you dont care about those games and to be frank im not big on Eyepet myself, but its there IF i felt so inclined. Nothing wrong with options. Support, a little off topic but where is the damn support?? Its been out for alot longer than Kinect or Move and both of those have more compatible games than M+, un freaking real. 

In the end there BOTH great devices and they do as they say they do, what i find sad and despicable is people hating just to hate. You a fanatic of Ninty and hate Sony?? Fine, but for the love of whatever deity you believe in dont make up lies on a device you havent even touched. Not talking to you directly, just in general. Hell im not a big MS guy but i keep an open mind about Kinect and i like it for what it is. 



oniyide on 10 July 2011

And if i implied that Move is more ACCURATE than M+ thats my bad, wasnt my intention, should have been more clear. But neither is more accurate than the other



DKHustlin on 10 July 2011

because its the ps3 and not the wii



Everyday I'm hustlin'.

 

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Alby_da_Wolf on 11 July 2011
SvennoJ said:
scottie said:
SvennoJ said:

 

WM+ measures 3d movement, orientation and distance [but not its position]

Both severely lack games that really make use of their capabilities :(


Not a physicist, I take it?

 

Starting from the acceleration, we integrate to get the velocity, and integrate again to get position. This gets us an equation of

 

Position = acceleration * t^2 + initial velocity * time + initial position, where pretty much everything there is a vector.

 

This equation of course only works for constant acceleration, which will becomae a valid equation as we reduce the time between successive calculations.

 

We also need a way to find our initial conditions. Why not assume that the Wiimote is at rest, directly infront of the tv? If it's critical, TELL the user to put it infront of the tv and keep it still.

 

I am not saying any games use it, I am merely saying that WM+ can calculate your position, which produces just as good results as move detecting your poisition.

I have worked with accelerometers in my work for use of deadreckoning to keep calculating the position of a car when gps reception is lost for a short while. (urban canyon problems) From experience I've seen that that's only reliable for a short amount of time, 15sec to maybe a minute. You need a reference point to correct for drift in the sensors, which is what the camera is for in move. If you cover the light bulb on move it will continue to work but the pointer will drift and after a couple of minutes you'll be pointing way of screen in killzone 3 or dead space extraction.

You have to keep the wii mote still so it can reset the orientation and knows what up, down, left, right is again. It's not setting a point in space (the table) to calculate movements from. All vectors it calculates are relative, it has no idea where the wm is in the room. Sure you can draw a 3D figure in the air and the wm+ should be able to reproduce it on screen, but it can't know your relative position to a ping pong table with any accuracy just a short minute after calibration.

It was fun working with the accelerometers. Although not all that useful to calculate your position for more then half a minute, they were very useful to calculate the orientation of the device and make some fun inhouse tilt based games long before the iPhone or Wiimote. If only we had patented it back then :/

Just what I was thinking, the camera and the glowing clown nose on top of the dildo allow Move to constantly recalibrate on the fly.

I guess with PS4 Sony will need to upgrade Move's camera to 3D with depth detection like Kinect, as it allows more complex hands-free games  and currently MS has no competition in that niche.



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