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Forums - Nintendo - All right gamrConnect, we're going to play Zelda games together!

RolStoppable said:
Helios said:
It depends on your perspective. The older Zeldas certainly had a lot less content, but does that make the new titles bloated? I personally don't think so. In any case, some of the potential "issues" date back to the very first games, such as having a long, descriptive text appear every time you find a key/map/compass.

Twilight Princess probably has the slowest start of any Zelda, but I think the game builds atmosphere well. It doesn't always deliver on its promises, but it is evident the opening sequence was not without thought. Something as simple as the act of making your way up a tower staircase is a powerful way of building tension and expectations... though, I have to admit, I think Zelda's role in the story was one of the things that didn't quite live up to its potential.

I wouldn't say that the older Zelda games had a lot less content. The newer ones are indeed bloated.

The very first games didn't have long descriptive texts, this only started with OoT which also had the nerve to not put the full text right into the box, but instead had it slowly appear line by line. TWW pushed it further by explaining really every item you took out of treasure chests. As if it wouldn't be selfexplanatory what a colored rupee is and how much it's worth, you just have to look at the rupee counter.

The number of dungeons in each game is similar when you compare to the old games to the new ones, at times the newer games even feature less. The newer games mainly take longer for completion, because there was so much bloat added. Using a flute and warping to another point of the world was a matter of seconds in the old games, in OoT, MM and TWW it took about a minute because you had to press some buttons everytime and then watch a sequence of the whole song playing. Things like this add up over the course of the game and can amount to up to an hour of time lost.

The number of longwinded conversations with NPCs also increased with each new game and so did the number of forced minigames (meaning you absolutely have to do them to progress). The newer games also feature elaborate cutscenes, including showcases of the bosses you are about to fight.

In the end, it takes about three times longer to finish a modern Zelda game. Not because the newer games have so much more content, but because of bloat that wasn't in the old games. The structure of the dungeons changing is another major factor. The old games feature more maze-like layouts and a lot of rooms don't have to be necessarily visited. Additionally, the individual rooms are most of the time about fighting monsters instead of solving puzzles. Since a lot of times you can try to just run past enemies, the older games are further sped up. The newer games are dominated by a room-after-room structure with an increasing focus of puzzle solving.

Link's Awakening at least is loaded with aggravating descriptive text. For a while it seemed like every time i brushed up against a pot and didn't have that power-ring equipped, the game would spout a few blocks of text about how heavy this is and how i can't lift it as is

The problem with comparing old bosses to new is that the new bosses wouldn't feel anywhere near as cathartic if they were as fast-paced. I mean, i knocked over one miniboss in LA before i even really knew what i was doing (the ogre in the Bottle Grotto), just trapped him in a corner and he was dead like that. The actual boss of the Bottle Grotto did feel more evenly paced, but it would feel weird just dropping in on, say, Volvagia with no name or explanation and just have him start whaling on you

The only thing i really don't like about modern Zelda bosses is that too often they are immobile (like Gohma in Wind Waker, or Stallord, or any of the Spirit Tracks bosses except Byrne/Stevan), and are too pattern-y. I'd like the fights to feel more organic, like monsters in Monster Hunter, which were still set to patterns, but didn't feel like they were



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Roll: You are largely correct, but you must realize that your idea of content is naturally biased. Cutscenes, events, Ocarina-playing, roadblocks, item-descriptions, enemies, dungeon layouts, etc. are all part of the design of the game - in other words, content.

As I mentioned, I don't think of most of this content as bloat. What I do think of as bloat is that which is needless or serves very little purpose, such as (the very concept of) repeated descriptions. What I don't think of as bloat is that which adds to the experience, such as Ocarina-playing. I am of course aware that this is an entirely subjective notion, and I only ask you to admit as much yourself.

PS. You can't skip the (far too long) note on the compass in LA...

Mr Khan: That's a good point about the bosses. What do you get out of a boss? In the older (2D) Zeldas, it was simply a good fight. In the more recent (3D) titles, you are combating a foe with a real sense of history, lending another kind of gravitas to the fight. For example, Barinade wasn’t just some evil parasite - he, like Gohma, was on the verge of killing a deity, and Link struggled with him repeatedly throughout the dungeon (the tentacles you fight are his). The way the bosses are treated, with ‘cinematic’ elements, reflect their additional significance within the game world.

The same could be said for many other aspects of the games. The old games are direct and play-centric in their approach (calling the bird in ALttP), while the newer ones are careful to integrate disparate elements, creating a world history which imbues events with additional significance (playing the Nocture of Shadows). What I can say is that I enjoy both paradigms of design - both new and old Zeldas.



Well i'm playing Phantom Hourglass now and i'm intending to get the 3rd metal. I'll update later on

I also intend to get OoT 3D so maybe after im done with hour glass?



Rol: So it is.

Granted, a lot of content is reused, but this is the case for every game. The fact that you have already fought an enemy, met a character, or seen a location doesn't mean it can't be used again. The point is that there are no music-minigames in the older Zeldas, no boss intros, etc. That's conceptual content. Certainly, one cannot deny that the later games are not as pure in their design as the older titles - but if you consider that to be "enriching" or "muddling" is another matter.



I agree with Rol. In ocarina of time, the game feels like lacking of action. Something MM overcame thanks to the 3 days limit. That's why I believe a lot of people will feel that difference playing Link's awakening before (or after) Ocarina of time.



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I feel stupid. A simple misunderstanding of a block puzzle (the block puzzle immediately next to the Pegasus Boots) led me to restoring to my old save-points several times, since i jumped the gun and assumed the puzzle was unsolvable without the dungeon item, not knowing that that puzzle was guarding the dungeon item, so ended up wandering around the dungeon several times until i gave up, went to GameFaqs, then figured out the puzzle was solvable

This isn't the first time they've fooled me with those damn puzzle blocks. I got quite stuck in the last dungeon on that too. I'll have to remember the third time

On the plus side, i found the boss for the Key Cavern quite inventive and fun, utilizing the Pegasus Boots in multiple ways.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Ahhhh Just finished Majora's Mask. Loved it!!

Will play Wind Waker next.



My mini, very brief review of Majora's Mask

Pros:-

- Unique

- The time limit and the excellent saving system make the game very exciting.

- The combat system is still great and fun

- Tight controls

- Great boss fights

- The ability to fight bosses whenever I want without going through the whole dungeon again

- Challenging and exciting final boss (without using the final mask)

- Great and challenging dungeons (especially Stone Tower Temple)

- Graphics still look good

- Great characters (e.g. Mask Salesman)

- Compelling story

- The Bunny hood

- Brilliant music that fits the game very, very well. I love how the town's music changes by day.

- The idea of collecting and using masks is brilliant. Collecting them is absolutely addicting

- Tons of things to do outside of the main quest (mini-games, collecting masks & heart pieces...etc)

- Clock Town is full of life. Lots of different things to do on different days.

- Skippable cut-scenes while changing masks.

- Satisfying ending

 

Cons:-

- A lot of the masks are only useful for one specific event (to get a heart piece, or another not very useful mask), rather than affecting the gameplay

- Some of the songs are reused from Ocarina of Time. Also the game's version of "The Ballad of Windfish" is not the same as Link's Awakening version. I’m disappointed.

- Repetitive sound effects

- Constantly changing masks can get tedious sometimes

- The bird that steals items. I HATE how you have to eit|her go buy it from the curiosity shop or have to go back to day 1. Especially when it steals very important items (e.g. the sword)

- You can't take items with you when returning back in time

- Doing some of things again when returning back to day 1 is frustrating (e.g. talking to the guard when exiting Clock town)

- Not enough weapon upgrades

 

Overall I thought the game was absolutely brilliant and unique. I've never experienced anything like it. The only real thing the hurts the game is the useless masks. This is basically the very first Zelda I have ever finished (Played the excellent Wind Waker when it came out, never finished it.)

 

9.6/10

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Notable music from the game:-

The Final Hours

Ancient Caslte of Ikana
http://youtu.be/pznakwi--Fs

Song of Healing
http://youtu.be/XDX4ZwUeOok

Giant's Theme
http://youtu.be/W62BAyLkvyk

Stone Tower
http://youtu.be/fNDLoncWz30

Astral Observatory
http://youtu.be/s0krxH0dWhU

Pirate's Fortress
http://youtu.be/EtvfLCXA0LM



Mr Khan said:
I feel stupid. A simple misunderstanding of a block puzzle (the block puzzle immediately next to the Pegasus Boots) led me to restoring to my old save-points several times, since i jumped the gun and assumed the puzzle was unsolvable without the dungeon item, not knowing that that puzzle was guarding the dungeon item, so ended up wandering around the dungeon several times until i gave up, went to GameFaqs, then figured out the puzzle was solvable

This isn't the first time they've fooled me with those damn puzzle blocks. I got quite stuck in the last dungeon on that too. I'll have to remember the third time

On the plus side, i found the boss for the Key Cavern quite inventive and fun, utilizing the Pegasus Boots in multiple ways.

Be mindful in the Catfish's Maw, there is a red-herring 'puzzle' there that's just... I spent more time than I'm willing to admit on that one. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it in a Zelda game.



Ok ill bite. Why not.

Currently playing Ocarina of Time 3D. Just fnished the Forest Temple. Remember the wallmasters? I let one grab me to see what it would look like in 3D. It was glorious!

I need to finish Spirit Tracks. Ive been putting it off for some reason.

At some point id like to dl Links Awakening since ive never played it.