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Forums - NSFW - Slutwalks, rape and the blame game

NKAJ said:

Even by your own reasoning that doesn't make sense. The  guy was telling them that dressing in that sort of manner would make them more likely to get raped. He never said that they were asking for it,or said that sluts deserve it. He is simply telling them some common sense.

He said "don't dress like a slut". He didn't say "don't wear revealing clothing. studies show that revealing clothing draws rapists to women". He was making a moral judgment regarding women who wear such clothing. "Common sense" isn't always in concordance with reality. I've yet to see a study confirming that rapists are more drawn to woemn who wear revealing clothing, and the guys supporting the cop on this thread don't seem to be bothering to post a link to such a study.



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SecondWar said:
sapphi_snake said:
No, this is definitely the "blame the victim" mentality at work. What's all this nonsense about revealing clothing increasing the chances of getting raped? There's only 1 entity responsable for rape, and that's the rapist! Raping someone is wrong, under any circumstances.

I don't anyone here disagrees that rape is wrong under any circumstance, even if the woman was walking down the street naked. It presumed just the mentality of rapists. If said naked woman and a fully clothed woman were unfortunate enough to be near an area where a rapist was lurking, who is this guy more likely to go for?

Also think how some rapists try to use what the victim was wearing as a defence in court as utter rubbish. Thats like breaking into someone else's house and stealing there stuff, then claiming its ok because they left the window or forgot to put the alarm on. What a load of ****

There was definately moral judgment in what he said, and there's also a general ideea in society that women who dress a certain way are "asking for it", because men allegedly can't "control" themselves when they see a woman wearign "sexy" clothing, so it's the woman's responsability to not give men a reason to rape them.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

The cop should have said that carrying a loaded hand gun would reduce your chances of getting assaulted. Oh wait, women cannot walk around York University with loaded hand guns. Is at least mace legal there? Maybe he could have suggested that instead. Although, not dressing in very revealing clothing is also good advice.

Anyway, these walks provide opportunities for socialist feminists and males of all political believes to get together and have fun. Sounds good to me :)



 

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scottie said:
theRepublic said:
scottie said:

How about a policeman telling a group of students

"Dressing in clothing that covers the majority of your body has been shown to lead to a decrease in the chance that you will get raped"

Assuming that it is true, and there is evidence to support this, is that a reasonable thing to be saying? In my view, it is. I'm interested to hear from all of you.

Then we get to the final thing, which is what the policeman actually said, that the students should  "avoid dressing like sluts" to avoid being victimised.

It isn't true.  All the evidence I have seen on the subject supports the opposite position.


It may well not be true, but if it is not true. it doesn't really lead on to an interesting discussion. Hence why I assumed it.

 

Anyway, it is interesting to hear that. I'd be interested in a source if you have one.

Not a fun topic, but here you go:

http://www.openleft.com/diary/14082/victimology-of-rape - Victims tend to be those viewed as submissive.

"Even personality plays a role. Conventional wisdom holds that women who dress provocatively draw attention and put themselves at risk of sexual assault. But studies show that it is women with passive, submissive personalities who are most likely to be raped-and that they tend to wear body-concealing clothing, such as high necklines, long pants and sleeves, and multiple layers. Predatory men can accurately identify submissive women just by their style of dress and other aspects of appearance. The hallmarks of submissive body language, such as downward gaze and slumped posture, may even be misinterpreted by rapists as flirtation. ..."

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/CRV92.PDF - A significant portion of victims are so young that dress doesn't really come into play.

http://www.blogotariat.com/node/216481 - Actually about this very incident.  Includes a link to a massive paper.

http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/myths_facts.pdf

http://www.yellodyno.com/Statistics/statistics_rape.html - Another that shows that children are the most likely victims

I can't remember where I found it now, but I also saw that the most likely thing for a victim to be wearing is jeans and a t-shirt.  Hardly provacative.



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theRepublic said:

Not a fun topic, but here you go:

http://www.openleft.com/diary/14082/victimology-of-rape - Victims tend to be those viewed as submissive.

"Even personality plays a role. Conventional wisdom holds that women who dress provocatively draw attention and put themselves at risk of sexual assault. But studies show that it is women with passive, submissive personalities who are most likely to be raped-and that they tend to wear body-concealing clothing, such as high necklines, long pants and sleeves, and multiple layers. Predatory men can accurately identify submissive women just by their style of dress and other aspects of appearance. The hallmarks of submissive body language, such as downward gaze and slumped posture, may even be misinterpreted by rapists as flirtation. ..."

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/CRV92.PDF - A significant portion of victims are so young that dress doesn't really come into play.

http://www.blogotariat.com/node/216481 - Actually about this very incident.  Includes a link to a massive paper.

http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/myths_facts.pdf

http://www.yellodyno.com/Statistics/statistics_rape.html - Another that shows that children are the most likely victims

I can't remember where I found it now, but I also saw that the most likely thing for a victim to be wearing is jeans and a t-shirt.  Hardly provacative.

This makes perfect sense if you think about it. You could even make a parallel with the type of people most lilely to be bullied in school. It's certainly not the loud, extroverted, assertive type.

 

I always knew that conventional wisdon tends to be bullshit most of the times, especially in cases like this where it's based on prejudice and misogynism.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

thanks for the links therepublic.

As I said, I was assuming it to be true simply because in the case of the policeman being wrong, and giving out advice that would lead to an increased chance of being raped, then he is obviously in the wrong and there's nothing to talk about.



I read the two first pages and I just can believe the mentality of people here. I will have to side with Saphi and say that women have the right to dress whatever they want and not being disturbed if they don't want to. Period. Is their right.
Sometimes, this "your clothes are not apropriate" excuse is used even if the woman victimized is pretty, but is wearing apropriate clothes. The policeman look at her, see a beautiful woman, desire her himself and subconciously thinks "she had it coming", therefore treating her case leniently. Human beings are not forces of nature or dangerous animals like bears.
Using less clothing is not the equivalent of using honey and going to the woods, or bathing in blood and going to the deep ocean. Is exercizing their sexuality, a right they have conquered in the XXth century. Men have to learn to live with it and respect it.

BTW, rape is not a practice of the mentally ill only, just as homicide is not a "privilege" of psicopaths, but it's a practice that should be the focus of more attention from the police, cause is hideous in nature, but still to common for a so called modern society.



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I read the links that theRepublic put up and I have to admit,I am completely wrong. I guess it just shows how we, or at least I, rely on common sense to much and don't question it enough or look for contradicting evidence.



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i which women think like sapphi, if they did we would have alot of naked women walking on beaches and streets which would be pretty awesome