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Forums - NSFW Discussion - Slutwalks, rape and the blame game

mantlepiecek on 12 June 2011
sapphi_snake said:
mantlepiecek said:

So what is this society you are talking about? Men control societies probably because they are more aggressive than women, have you ever thought of that? Traditional this traditional that, the world is hardly traditional anymore.

If you go around showing off, then whether you are a man or a woman, you will be disrespected by a certain crowd in the society. I guess the difference is you see less men walking in their underwear on the streets or even shirtless. Women obviously show off more than men. Showing off your arms = /= showing off your cleavage. Although I don't really have a problem with either.

It's irrelevant why men control society. What's important is that they do, and they repress anyone who's different or who doesn't conform to their imagined paradigm (women, people of other ethnicities or sexual orientations etc.).

 

I've actually seen more men almost naked on the street than women. There are generally much less restrictions regarding what's considered "decent" for a man to wear. For example men can go topless, while women can (in other cultures, like some African ones, it's quite normal for women to walk aroud topless to). A man can walk on the street wearing nothing but a pair of shorts, and (if it's summer) no one will get vocal, or call him "vulgar". A woman doing someting similar however...

You have seen more men almost naked on the streets than men?

I call that impossible. Even with less restrictions, men usually wear a shirt or or something to cover up their upper body completely, women show off their skins a lot more than men. Its not about what a man can do, its about what he does.

As for you first para, I am a man and I hardly try to change people who are not similar to me. Same thing applies to a lot of men that I know, there are very few men that I know that can't emrace change or difference and all those men have a dozen women supporting them.

The point I want to make is simple, you are trying to somewhat imply that men are in some way less moralistic or of less good-will then women when I can assure that's not true at all.



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MrBubbles on 12 June 2011
sapphi_snake said:
mantlepiecek said:

So what is this society you are talking about? Men control societies probably because they are more aggressive than women, have you ever thought of that? Traditional this traditional that, the world is hardly traditional anymore.

If you go around showing off, then whether you are a man or a woman, you will be disrespected by a certain crowd in the society. I guess the difference is you see less men walking in their underwear on the streets or even shirtless. Women obviously show off more than men. Showing off your arms = /= showing off your cleavage. Although I don't really have a problem with either.

It's irrelevant why men control society. What's important is that they do, and they repress anyone who's different or who doesn't conform to their imagined paradigm (women, people of other ethnicities or sexual orientations etc.).

 

I've actually seen more men almost naked on the street than women. There are generally much less restrictions regarding what's considered "decent" for a man to wear. For example men can go topless, while women can (in other cultures, like some African ones, it's quite normal for women to walk aroud topless to). A man can walk on the street wearing nothing but a pair of shorts, and (if it's summer) no one will get vocal, or call him "vulgar". A woman doing someting similar however...


women are allowed to go topless where i am from.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

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kurasakiichimaru on 12 June 2011
elticker said:
sapphi_snake said:
mantlepiecek said:

So what is this society you are talking about? Men control societies probably because they are more aggressive than women, have you ever thought of that? Traditional this traditional that, the world is hardly traditional anymore.

If you go around showing off, then whether you are a man or a woman, you will be disrespected by a certain crowd in the society. I guess the difference is you see less men walking in their underwear on the streets or even shirtless. Women obviously show off more than men. Showing off your arms = /= showing off your cleavage. Although I don't really have a problem with either.

It's irrelevant why men control society. What's important is that they do, and they repress anyone who's different or who doesn't conform to their imagined paradigm (women, people of other ethnicities or sexual orientations etc.).

 

I've actually seen more men almost naked on the street than women. There are generally much less restrictions regarding what's considered "decent" for a man to wear. For example men can go topless, while women can (in other cultures, like some African ones, it's quite normal for women to walk aroud topless to). A man can walk on the street wearing nothing but a pair of shorts, and (if it's summer) no one will get vocal, or call him "vulgar". A woman doing someting similar however...

you need to protest so this rule is implementated in the states. its a pretty awesome rule to say the truth i would love it, i have no problems with women waking topless, i think its more about the women themselfs having the courage to walk topless if such a rule is allowed


Lol. That wouldn't work anywhere in this world. But I think for those people who do it, there must some sense of liberation. Just like shaving your head. It's probably hard for a woman to do it as society deemed it as unpleasant. I imagine for cancer patients, that is a hard thing to do. I guess society just can't take a change in dramatic way.



sapphi_snake on 12 June 2011
mantlepiecek said:

You have seen more men almost naked on the streets than men?

I call that impossible. Even with less restrictions, men usually wear a shirt or or something to cover up their upper body completely, women show off their skins a lot more than men. Its not about what a man can do, its about what he does.

As for you first para, I am a man and I hardly try to change people who are not similar to me. Same thing applies to a lot of men that I know, there are very few men that I know that can't emrace change or difference and all those men have a dozen women supporting them.

The point I want to make is simple, you are trying to somewhat imply that men are in some way less moralistic or of less good-will then women when I can assure that's not true at all.

I don't know where you are from, but over here it's quite common for men to go shirtless during the summer. And I'm sure you're quite aware that men go shirtless at beaches, and it's generally not considered that big of a deal for a man to expsoe his chest. It's considered a higher degree of "nakedness" for a woman to do that.

 

Regarding the bloded, I'm talking about society and the way it was founded. People nowadays perpetuate these models unwillingly. What we find "normal", "natural", "common sense" and what we find "weird", "abnormal", "deviant" were established by comparison with the characteristics of the dominant category of humans (the ones who had power, who were men). Theoretically, men are the ones who decided what's moral and what's not in the first place.



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sapphi_snake on 12 June 2011
MrBubbles said:


women are allowed to go topless where i am from.

Don't you live in Canada? Bet very frew women can take advantage of this liberty in that case. Plus, considering the way you are, it's not a benefit for you.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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MrBubbles on 12 June 2011
sapphi_snake said:
MrBubbles said:


women are allowed to go topless where i am from.

Don't you live in Canada? Bet very frew women can take advantage of this liberty in that case.



  one word...global warming.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

sapphi_snake on 12 June 2011
MrBubbles said:
sapphi_snake said:
MrBubbles said:


women are allowed to go topless where i am from.

Don't you live in Canada? Bet very frew women can take advantage of this liberty in that case.



  one word...global warming.

Tell me about it. They keep saying on the news that Romania's gonna be a desert in 50 years. Also, global warming is 2 words, not 1.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

scottie on 12 June 2011
theRepublic said:
scottie said:

How about a policeman telling a group of students

"Dressing in clothing that covers the majority of your body has been shown to lead to a decrease in the chance that you will get raped"

Assuming that it is true, and there is evidence to support this, is that a reasonable thing to be saying? In my view, it is. I'm interested to hear from all of you.

Then we get to the final thing, which is what the policeman actually said, that the students should  "avoid dressing like sluts" to avoid being victimised.

It isn't true.  All the evidence I have seen on the subject supports the opposite position.


It may well not be true, but if it is not true. it doesn't really lead on to an interesting discussion. Hence why I assumed it.

 

Anyway, it is interesting to hear that. I'd be interested in a source if you have one.



NKAJ on 13 June 2011
sapphi_snake said:
mantlepiecek said:

I find sapphi snake's responses very funny.

Parents tell their children all the time that roaming alone is dangerous for them, they might get kidnapped. So imagine in such a situation if all the kids start roaming alone to f&*king prove a point.

I realize that women are grown human beings and all, but honestly, what the policeman said was hardly saying like rape was a woman's fault or anything like that. Its like saying lock your f&*king doors at night if you don't want thieves to steal your property.

Some activists are really the most dumb people on this planet.

He didn't say that. He told them not to wear "revealing" clothing, and suggested that women that wear such clothing are "sluts". He also implied that "sluts" are asking to be raped, after all, that's what you can deduce when someone tells you: "Don't wanna get raped? Don't dress like a slut!".

Even by your own reasoning that doesn't make sense. The  guy was telling them that dressing in that sort of manner would make them more likely to get raped. He never said that they were asking for it,or said that sluts deserve it. He is simply telling them some common sense.



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SecondWar on 13 June 2011
sapphi_snake said:
No, this is definitely the "blame the victim" mentality at work. What's all this nonsense about revealing clothing increasing the chances of getting raped? There's only 1 entity responsable for rape, and that's the rapist! Raping someone is wrong, under any circumstances.

I don't anyone here disagrees that rape is wrong under any circumstance, even if the woman was walking down the street naked. It presumed just the mentality of rapists. If said naked woman and a fully clothed woman were unfortunate enough to be near an area where a rapist was lurking, who is this guy more likely to go for?

Also think how some rapists try to use what the victim was wearing as a defence in court as utter rubbish. Thats like breaking into someone else's house and stealing there stuff, then claiming its ok because they left the window or forgot to put the alarm on. What a load of ****