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Forums - Sales Discussion - 360 Numbers don't add up!

Monty on 08 January 2007

TalonMan said: Monty said: I'm not even sure what to say anymore... everytime I read something in this thread that makes me shake my head and laugh, I read one thing even funnier. I think the claim that vgcharts is more accurate than the NPD might now be my all time favorite! It's getting to the point where I'm now starting to think you guys are just screwing with me and you don't really believe what you're saying. How can anybody sane believe some of this stuff? I cannot believe this thread is still going... ...I'll give you credit for persistance. ...FYI - I'm pretty sure that guy meant the Japanese sales charts are more accurate than NPD - and I'm also pretty sure that's a fair assessment. Now apologize!!
Doh! You are so correct. I indeed misread that. Score one for yourself! It's now 114 for me, 1 for you - for those keeping score at home! And this thread is still going on because I am right! If it was the off the wall, thoughtless, and without some merit it would not have lasted this long. However, I think we're just about at the end of the discussion. Just about everybody now agrees that vgcharts is too low on the 360 number (although we differ on the exact amount), and we've just come to agree that it's just horribly out of date, which explains the big difference!



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gebx on 09 January 2007

Jack said: gebx said: Hi Everyone, I read the post on the first 2 pages, and skipped the third (u guys repeat a lot of the same stuff). I wanted to help clarify one thing, something that didn't add up. The "rest" of NA is higher then 10% Reason - Canada is 1/10 of the US population, but is also more tech savy (Highest per capita in HD TV, Digital Stations, highest penetration in High Speed Internet... the winters are long and cold in Canada). Canada could be between 10%-14% of US sales. I'm pretty sure a couple mexicans have bought games also... 6%-10%(this is a big guess.. wouldn't know where to find sales figures for Mexico) I also wanted to point out the CTV article quoted is from the 2005 Launch... Canada only sold 10% of sales compared to the US because that's all it received for the launch. Well lets repeat our selfs one more time. It would be cheaper for mexicians to import the machine than to buy it in their store. That means a portion of mexicos xbox buyers are counted but only as in america. Your reason for canadian to buy an xbox is flawed and here is how. If they are tech savvy then they would be buying more PC gaming rigs and since most xbox games go to PC. And because they are tech savvy and want the best gaming rig (winters are long and cold in Canada) they would know this and would not buy a xbox to sit in a corner.
Your flawed! With the exchange rate, 99% of all electronics are cheaper in US then Canada, but yet somehow Canadians electronic store still manage to stay in business... it really is a modern miracle how that works... Mexican stores sell 360's, maybe not millions, but they do sell. And as for the PC comment, that's just retarted... You're stating that PC users don't buy consoles.. Consoles are alot cheaper and easier to setup then "the best gaming rig". Do I really have to compare for you the differences (good and bad) between consoles and PC gaming rigs??



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psorcerer on 09 January 2007

Monty said: - 800k for the rest of NA - 200k for the last week of Dec 2006 in the US
Just admit that you've pulled these numbers out of nowhere. So I'll invent mine: 600k for all NA will be in NPD December report, try to argue with that.



catofellow on 09 January 2007

1.) Monty and others who believe that the 360 sales should be higher; do you think that vgcharts should guess, with no sources what the actual sales are? You keep referring to NPD #'s which haven't been released yet to get your U.S. totals. Obviously the XBOX 360's sales should be higher as we see the same total we saw yesterday for all three consoles. I would rather have a website that is updated as real information (provided by professional analysts) is released than one that just guesses. 2.) You made many comments to the effect that this site is biased toward Wii or against 360. However to prove this site is biased you would have to show that the XBOX 360 sales are too low and its competitors aren't. You can't just state that the XBOX 360 totals are too low as evidence of bias, common sense alone proves as much since the site is not continuously updated. Here's an excercise, try to prove that the Wii or PS3 sales are tabulated using a different methodology than the XBOX 360 and I will believe the site is biased. Otherwise all 3 console totals are underreported and are updated when NPD/Famitsu/Mediacreate issue press releases.



Lifetime Sales Prediction - 6/29/2013
Wii U - 38 million
XBOX One - 88 million
Playstation 4 - 145 million

Monty on 09 January 2007

catofellow said: 1.) Monty and others who believe that the 360 sales should be higher; do you think that vgcharts should guess, with no sources what the actual sales are? You keep referring to NPD #'s which haven't been released yet to get your U.S. totals. Obviously the XBOX 360's sales should be higher as we see the same total we saw yesterday for all three consoles. I would rather have a website that is updated as real information (provided by professional analysts) is released than one that just guesses. 2.) You made many comments to the effect that this site is biased toward Wii or against 360. However to prove this site is biased you would have to show that the XBOX 360 sales are too low and its competitors aren't. You can't just state that the XBOX 360 totals are too low as evidence of bias, common sense alone proves as much since the site is not continuously updated. Here's an excercise, try to prove that the Wii or PS3 sales are tabulated using a different methodology than the XBOX 360 and I will believe the site is biased. Otherwise all 3 console totals are underreported and are updated when NPD/Famitsu/Mediacreate issue press releases.
1) Do I think vgcharts should guess? That's an odd question considering THEY DO GUESS. Anybody that provides a WW tally of sold units to a consumer is guessing. Nobody knows the correct figure. What I would like to see is a logical guess. I do not feel that vgcharts is remotely close when it comes to the 360 numbers. 2) You have a fair point on #2. I do not have anything to back that up, and will happily withdrawl my statement that vgcharts is biased toward Nintendo. To be fair, I just regurgitated that from something I read on another site that made the allegation that the site owner was a member of another forum and favored Nintendo prior to running this site... it was 3rd hand information, I didn't research it any further, and can not vouge for its validity.



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Monty on 09 January 2007

psorcerer said: Monty said: - 800k for the rest of NA - 200k for the last week of Dec 2006 in the US Just admit that you've pulled these numbers out of nowhere. So I'll invent mine: 600k for all NA will be in NPD December report, try to argue with that.
It's not very tough to argue that one... NPD doesn't do a NA report. There is just a US report, and a separate Canada report which is rarely ever seen. They do nothing for Mexico, and they never combine Canada and US numbers, as they can make more money by selling their data separately. As for my numbers, the 200k was an average for daily sold. Early indication is that the 360 sold 1.2 million in the US in Dec. That's an average per day of 43k units sold. If I take that average out over the 26th-31st, then that was actually around 240k units, so I was a little low, but in the ballpark. I guess what I'm saying is that figure was based on actual data, not just picked from my butt, and in the end it was damn close. The 800k number is a complete guess, and was never a number that I claimed *I* believed. I feel it is much higher, but used 800k to try to appease some members of the site. I now see why a new poster to this thread said he quit reading after 3 pages as we're recycling old information. You guys bring up the same points over and over for me to answer. I'm pretty much done with this conversation and was a few days ago, but I'll stick around to answer all your questions and will definitely stick around for when we find out who was right. I guess what I'm saying is if you guys want to go over the same issues for eternity, I'll be happy to join in, but I'd suggest we move on and discuss new data as it pops up, or new evidence to help our old case(s). Right now we're not getting anywhere with the old stuff.



Monty on 09 January 2007

One last thing... I found where I read the site owner of vgchart was a Nintendo fan, which is what started me on that train of thought: "vgcharts is not accurate. It's run by some toolbox from the Gaming Age forum and has basically been debunked by any credible NPD/Media Create hound on that forum. He just makes stuff up, exactly like nextgenwars." "The only source of data this guy has is forum threads on GAF. That's it. Media Create is all over the net, and European stuff trickles in from time to time, but there's no way he has an NPD license, not to mention December NPD won't be released until early January. It's guesswork, plain and simple. And fwiw, his posts on GAF are generally slanted towards Nintendo. I think he's a fan." http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22984&page=3&pp=10 So, in case you were curious what started me on that path... it was that thread above. And, for the record, as I stated before, I can't say the above is true, and am not presenting this to prove a point... just in case you were curious why I said what I did.



Monty on 09 January 2007

Wii_gamer said: Nobody has yet agreed with you Monty. The latest figure on the front page is UP TO DATE AS OF SUNDAY NIGHT. It is as current as you can get. Total sales for Xbox360 worldwide upto that point is 8.3m. There are 2.1m 'stocks' around the world - this comes about because stores order loads in to anticipate the big christmas rush, it's a common thing that Sony and Nintendo do as well. Shipments will probably be low for the next couple of months as the christmas stock is gradually used up. Xbox360 sold below expectations this christmas, that is why stock is still left. You can pull numbers from here and there and play with them but the figures are there. North America includes USA, Canada, Mexico (Around 10% higher than USA alone so you can easily estimate this yourselves from raw NPD as many of you have been to give ~5.2m using the early estimates which have been made public - which range from 2m in Nov / Dec to 550k Nov and 1.2m Dec and is actually somewhere between these two). Others includes Europe, Asia excluding Japan, Australia, Africa etc (mainly Europe) of which the UK is the biggest market with 900k sold and France 2nd with 350k. All other countries are much lower than this. Japan is self explanatory and has been tracked by Famitsu / Media Create. To keep suggesting that Canada + Mexico (that well known gaming region lol) account for more than 800k sales is absurd and defies all logic. This is the major an obvious flaw in your agrument. The actual figure is less than 350k - I have it here so trust me please. Just under 10% of USA is the rule of thumb people have been using for years and it fits in most cases.
Don't yell at me for other's suggesting to me that the site was out of date. You can read back for yourself... I am not the one that said that. I just said that I'd agree with it, if that's what *their* claim was. As for the NA argument, we've been through that a million times. Unless you can show me a source that shows Mexico sales, you're just pulling stuff out of your butt, as you are claiming I am. What I do know is that Canada's population is 10% of the US, and it is HIGHLY likely they sell 10% of the US alone. So, what you're telling me is that Mexico sells ZERO consoles. What I also know is that YOU just told me YOU believe that the rest of NA totals 10% of the US. Then you tell me that YOU have the number and it is "under 350k". According to vgcharts, 5.38 units have been sold in NA. If I take out YOUR 350k figure, that is still above 5 million for the US. Using YOUR 10% figure, means that NA at least sold 500k. WHICH MEANS YOUR OWN FIGURES MAKE NO SENSE! You're either lying about the 10% or the 350k. Personally, I think it's both. And I'm supposed to "trust you"? But, again... I can keep responding to these all day and recycling the same conversation. It is entertaining to me to see what you guys are coming up with.



Stromprophet on 09 January 2007

TalonMan said: Monty said: I'm not even sure what to say anymore... everytime I read something in this thread that makes me shake my head and laugh, I read one thing even funnier. I think the claim that vgcharts is more accurate than the NPD might now be my all time favorite! It's getting to the point where I'm now starting to think you guys are just screwing with me and you don't really believe what you're saying. How can anybody sane believe some of this stuff? I cannot believe this thread is still going... ...I'll give you credit for persistance. ...FYI - I'm pretty sure that guy meant the Japanese sales charts are more accurate than NPD - and I'm also pretty sure that's a fair assessment. Now apologize!!
Yes, thankyou. That's exactly what I was saying. The numbers on this site are likely based in accurate information, is what I was implying. And I was stating we know for a fact the Japan numbers are extremely accurate cause they record that stuff weekly. Where did I ever say "VG charts are more accurate than NPD" ??? Some people.....



TheSource on 09 January 2007

Here is a great source for checking/refuting numbers: http://www.the-magicbox.com/charts.htm It will soon have 2006 figures for the USA & Japan. Platinum Game sales are also routinely updated. (10 years + of media crate and npd data)



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