By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - being gay a choice vs born that way.

 

being gay a choice vs born that way.

It's a lifestyle choice 120 25.53%
 
Your born that way 250 53.19%
 
no opinion 36 7.66%
 
other---for anything I missed 62 13.19%
 
Total:468
sapphi_snake said:
DélioPT said:
Chrizum said:
DélioPT said:
 

You got to understand that when people do those things you said, and i`m speaking of those who act according to their beliefs and not because of hate, they are acting in accordance to what they believe. Of course there are consequences and it`s impossible for them not to exist.
Everyone can understand that there are consequences of taking a stance, but please, don`t think that when a person doesn`t agree with you, specially on this issue, they are against you personally or against everyone who is gay.
Also, that doesn`t mean that we forget our own sins or even other group`s sins - as you put it. It`s just we are talking about just one issue.

I raised the question for a reason: even Jesus said one time that God`s ways weren`t shown completely to men because men`s hearts were hard, so they couldn`t understand it.

Tell me this: why is being gay wrong?


No one said that being gay is wrong. If you read some of the posts above you will see that.

Let's rephrase that question. Why is homosexuality wrong?


Well, God created man. And seeing he was lonely, God created woman and so they shall become one flesh. Also that serves for the institution of marriage by God Himself.
That`s why anything beyond that view is seen as a sin.



Around the Network
DélioPT said:

The reason people vote against something civil marriage for people of the same sex it`s because, if they are given the chance to express their views, they will go with what they believe. For the Church is an institution made by God and Jesus, and, to the Church, gay marriage is seen as something that goes against that view, so they do speak about "defending marriage".

No that`s not the definition of faith and no one constructed anything. Actually, no one will tell you that they know everything about God. For that reason there really are several branches even on Christianity. But saying that equals to being constructed is wrong.

A poor argument, as we're speaking about civil marriage. Marriage also predates Christianity. Try again.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

DélioPT said:


Well, God created man. And seeing he was lonely, God created woman and so they shall become one flesh. Also that serves for the institution of marriage by God Himself.
That`s why anything beyond that view is seen as a sin.

Not the "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" argument. God also created gays, and for a gay person homosexuality is normal, natural, and makes them happy.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

DélioPT said:
sapphi_snake said:
DélioPT said:
Chrizum said:
DélioPT said:
 

You got to understand that when people do those things you said, and i`m speaking of those who act according to their beliefs and not because of hate, they are acting in accordance to what they believe. Of course there are consequences and it`s impossible for them not to exist.
Everyone can understand that there are consequences of taking a stance, but please, don`t think that when a person doesn`t agree with you, specially on this issue, they are against you personally or against everyone who is gay.
Also, that doesn`t mean that we forget our own sins or even other group`s sins - as you put it. It`s just we are talking about just one issue.

I raised the question for a reason: even Jesus said one time that God`s ways weren`t shown completely to men because men`s hearts were hard, so they couldn`t understand it.

Tell me this: why is being gay wrong?


No one said that being gay is wrong. If you read some of the posts above you will see that.

Let's rephrase that question. Why is homosexuality wrong?


Well, God created man. And seeing he was lonely, God created woman and so they shall become one flesh. Also that serves for the institution of marriage by God Himself.
That`s why anything beyond that view is seen as a sin.

You can't judge about homosexuality, that's up to God. God is the judge of all, therefore you cannot know if homosexuality is wrong or not. Agreed or not?



DélioPT said:

Speaking about hateful speeches, let`s see: all i have been doing is calling someone`s actions a sin. Got nothing against the person just don´t agree with a specific action.
Now, let`s see your comments:

"mind your own business"
"can`t use the "it´s my religion" card..."
"you and your kind"

I could swear there was an attempt on free speech and my own dignity. Seems like descrimination.

People do those specific actions because they're the result of a specific need to find a mate who offers sexual and emotional gratification (in the case of homosexuals this mate will be someone of the same sex). What you're trying to do is to create a psychological pressure that will force those you have deemed "wrong" (or in this case "sinful"), who actually are just different than you, to censure and repress themselves. It's no different than asking someone to cut their hand off.

Yes, mind your own business. It's not hate speech. You have no business trying to pass laws that interfere with other people's personal lives. Honestly, I'm gonna start a movement to ban religious symbols from people's homes. See how "you and your kind" like it.

I guess you're mistaking freedom of speech, with the fact that you are not allowed to restrict other people's personal freedoms.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Around the Network
sapphi_snake said:
DélioPT said:

Speaking about hateful speeches, let`s see: all i have been doing is calling someone`s actions a sin. Got nothing against the person just don´t agree with a specific action.
Now, let`s see your comments:

"mind your own business"
"can`t use the "it´s my religion" card..."
"you and your kind"

I could swear there was an attempt on free speech and my own dignity. Seems like descrimination.

People do those specific actions because they're the result of a specific need to find a mate who offers sexual and emotional gratification (in the case of homosexuals this mate will be someone of the same sex). What you're trying to do is to create a psychological pressure that will force those you have deemed "wrong" (or in this case "sinful"), who actually are just different than you, to censure and repress themselves. It's no different than asking someone to cut their hand off.

Yes, mind your own business. It's not hate speech. You have no business trying to pass laws that interfere with other people's personal lives. Honestly, I'm gonna start a movement to ban religious symbols from people's homes. See how "you and your kind" like it.

I guess you're mistaking freedom of speech, with the fact that you are not allowed to restrict other people's personal freedoms.

Your passion is something I admire sometimes, of course in the arguements you are mentioning I agree with all of them, no religion should restrict a person to be happy and have personal freedoms based on their sexuality, race or gender.

 

A better arguement he could have come up with is that gay relationships might be seen in God's eyes as something that does not help the procreation of the human race. Whether or not people hide this arguement behind religious context based on a completely different time, this is one thing that can be completely ignored due to modern science providing 2 very able and good parents with the children they so deserve, whether it is via adoption or selfless surrogacy. I know some USA politicians have used the 'traditional family' arguement at lot when argueing against marriage.

But that doesn't mean DélioPT's choice and freedom to have beliefs based on a faith with the freedom to read scriptures and worship a higher power should be restricted either. 

 



Hmm, pie.

I will never know the answer to that. I will have to be gay to answer that. That will be like a trick question. Also why would a guy want to be like a girl and be a he-she. Why would a girl dress like guy or a guy like a girl and be a drag queen. I don't know but I do know that I've given it way to much thought so I will sign off now.



The Fury said:

Your passion is something I admire sometimes, of course in the arguements you are mentioning I agree with all of them, no religion should restrict a person to be happy and have personal freedoms based on their sexuality, race or gender.

 

A better arguement he could have come up with is that gay relationships might be seen in God's eyes as something that does not help the procreation of the human race. Whether or not people hide this arguement behind religious context based on a completely different time, this is one thing that can be completely ignored due to modern science providing 2 very able and good parents with the children they so deserve, whether it is via adoption or selfless surrogacy. I know some USA politicians have used the 'traditional family' arguement at lot when argueing against marriage.

But that doesn't mean DélioPT's choice and freedom to have beliefs based on a faith with the freedom to read scriptures and worship a higher power should be restricted either. 

 

Hehe, my passion causes me trouble lots of times (ask Kasz, he knows it all too well).

The reproduction argument has many flaws:

- Homosexuals are a minority (only 3% of the population, or something of the sort), so humnaity won't go extinct if a small percentage doesn't reproduce (it may actually be a good thing for hygenic reasons, such as overpopulation); the problem is that the homophobe crowd tend to think that being gay is a choice (a belief that proves to be very inconsistent if you ask them to prove it by becoming gays themselves), and not discriminating against homosexuals will encourage more people to "turn" gay;

- There are people who are naturally sterile; Homophibes greatly insult tese people, as they claim that reproduction is the sole purpose of romantic relationships (of course the fact tha tthey're not against sterile people again shows the inconsistency of their beleifs);

- For a religion that elevates chastity to virtue status, and whoss most proeminent figures had no offspring, it's quite funny that they care so much about reproduction in the first place.

I definately agree Delio has the right to everything you said in the bolded part. BUT beliefs (especially those concerning people other than the person who holds those beliefs) aren't exempted from criticism. Just as we'd show contempt for a person who holds racist beliefs (such as the notion that blacks are inferior to whites), we should do the same to peopel who hold homophobic beliefs (and the fact that it's still acceptable to hold homophobic beliefs, while we imediatelly call out people if they manifest racism, just goes to show the double-standards within society). To me homophobic belies, just like racist beliefs, are dangerous, as they imply the existence of people being "superior" and "inferior", "wrong" and "right", "normal" and "deviant", based on innate characteristcs. Allowing such beliefs to dictate law will only lead to a society where all those not part of the "superior", "right", "normal" category of people are persecuted and repressed. I simply can't look at it as if Delio said he thinks the colour purple is prettier than the colour blue.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

WiseOwl said:
I will never know the answer to that. I will have to be gay to answer that. That will be like a trick question. Also why would a guy want to be like a girl and be a he-she. Why would a girl dress like guy or a guy like a girl and be a drag queen. I don't know but I do know that I've given it way to much thought so I will sign off now.

LOL, this post makes your user name seem quite ironic.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

fastyxx said:
DélioPT said:

 Why do you call people hypocrites when no one said that they are better than anyone else, actually some made it very clear that they are as anyone else and they point sins to themselves. Should we just stop talking and pointing what in our eyes are sins/flaws/mistakes/etc.? Then how could there even be law in this world or respect and tolerance?
Going that route doesn`t bring anything good, just separation.

Your eyes are seeing evil where there is none. Nobody is after you or her or them, for that matter. We just think differently than you, in this.

The people passing laws to prevent marriage or adoption or civil unions or visitation rights or, like in tennessee, to prohibit schools from even acknowledging the existence of gay people until 9th grade, or serving in the military or job protections or housing rights etc. etc. etc. are not just pointing out disapproval.

To just sit and say "Oh we just disagree, let's all have some tea and cookies and smile at each other" is ignorant.

You can't just look the other way and ignore the injustices done in the name of religion by saying that there's no evil intent behind it.  A Christian may think it's all in the name of goodness and light, but to a gay person it's evil.  The lawmaker or the evangelist or the parent or whomever is going out of their way to try and make life difficult for one group of people while willfully ignoring literally thousands of others of groups who sin according to the Bible.

As for whether stoning is O.T. or N.T., I'm not sure I see how that matters. It's just an excuse some Christians make for better being able to pick ou the parts they like and ignoring the parts that are untenable.

Yeah, I never saw the point in that. The bible is the epitome of truth, however; disregard the old testament... doesn't that kind of take away a big part of the point with the bible in the first place? People pick and choose which parts to adhere to and the utterly disregard the parts that aren't so convenient. And not to mention the zounds of interpretations we have all over the place.