most gays i have seen in this world (and i've travelled around Europe) have lived up to the stereotype, or lived up to my perception of a gay man. they have been lively, colourful, funny, outgoing, camp, stylish etc. i can usually tell if someone is gay by looking at them

this applies to the 3 gay guys i know; they are all hilarious, wear colourful clothes, like a drink, really kinky 

here in the UK the main gay representatives on TV are Alan Carr and Graham Norton - need i say more

yes, its stereotypical and there are millions of gays out there who are, at face-value, completely ordinary - you couldn't tell they were gay by looking at them

however i believe that there is a very strong correlation between the characteristics i mentioned, and gayness

edit: don't want to make this personal, but i would imagine you and seece (two gay guys) as being very colourful, lively, youthful etc. maybe im wrong, and no i don't know yous so i cant really comment, im just guessing

no stereotype is right as it cannot be applied to all. however if it can be applied to most/many, then i think it should be recognised.

for example the stereotype that the irish are drunks. i live in ireland, and yes, it is abnormal if you aren't going out and getting smashed when you are 16

I'd say Stephen Fry is a far better and more prominant representative then Alan Carr, it's just Alan Carr has the stereotype attached to him.

How do you know if all the people you meet are straight or gay? Its not like everyone wears it on theirs sleeves. You can usually tell someone is gay by looking at them? more like you think you can because you have sterotyped them. You to need to get the stereotyping out of your head. I am not claiming to know all gays or understand them any better than the next guy, but I can tell you that you have not seen the wide variety of gays there may be. Let me tell you they are not all into fashion or colorful, or lively. To be honest out of all of the ones I know I would say the the least percentage acts how you describe and the rest you would never know, nor would they just tell a stranger.

I would disagree that it can be aplied to most.

Even if it was a choice, why does that discredit it or make it any less needing of legal protection or deserving of recognition as a form of love that should be allowed to be enshrined in the law in a secular country? If a person can choose to like the same sex, then they're exercising and enacting on a preference and they should be allowed to be married civilly and in any religious institution that allows it or any new religion that springs up that supports gay marriage.

I have not read the scientific literature, but my position currently is that sexuality doesn't appear to be something that can be choosen, I cannot force myself to like the idea of having gay sex. If hetrosexual people are pre-disposed to being attracted to the other sex then why wouldn't that be the case with gay and bisexual people in regards to their own or both? If you don't think you could choose to be gay, why would you think gay people can choose to be strait? Put yourself in other peoples shoes for a moment and think about it.

And as I said, even if it were a choice, why does that matter? If a person made the choice to be attracted to people of their own sex then they should be allowed every singly right that hetrosexual couples are allowed.

Short answer?  Neither

Long answer... it's stupid to look into the terms of sexual idenitity and sexual attraction in the terms of binaries.

The truth is, people are more or less "born" with their sexual attractions... however for the majority of the population it's actually less "certain" then one would think.

There are a lot of people who are straight... or are gay... bot because they find one sex appealing and doesn't find the other appealing... but because they find one sex more appealing then the other, and society tends to teach us to think in terms of one or the other.

I would point to the vast popularity of threesome porn involving 2 guys among men.  Even if it's porn where they aren't directly doing anything... that's a little "gay."

Though if you want to keep it in a binary system... there is plenty to suggest that attraction to the same sex is in fact "nature".  Not fully genetics but largely nature.  Case studies have shown that homosexuality does run in families, even in case studies where you take the "nurture" aspect out because of people being orphans, divorce, adoption, etc.

Part of it is genetic... and part of it appears to be imprinted on you when you are in the womb.

Younger Brothers are actually more likely to be born gay... again even accounting for all the factors above... and it only happens when it's younger brothers all from the same mother.  It's thought to be related to some sort of immune reaction.

example or a research study.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article679681.ece

Homosexuals are also more likely to be left handed as well.  Which either points to genetics or years of frustration with finding correct scissors and computer mouses.

One of the best comments here. They really should create some sort of "like" button.

In my opinion,

I think he has a very solid point. A criminal ALWAYS has a choice (Except for mental ones, which i doubt are 9/10). Even the dirtiest of scum, weigh the decisions they make that lead them to becoming criminals. Even if it is wrong, and even if it is punishable. Just like being gay (not punishible but speaking in terms of back in the day). Becoming gay is a matter of choice and taste. And not a taste like food that is determined by genes, rather a taste in emotion, which is determined by nurture or enviorment. 

I know that a very strong argument is "Why would someone WANT to be gay in horrible situations", but i truly believe that even though they might not know it, they want it. Even if for some reason they think its wrong, or for some reason they think its a bad idea, they want it. And you know what, that is absolutly fine. 

Sexual attraction (which is a natural, unconscious impulse), is determined by nurture or environment?