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Forums - General Discussion - being gay a choice vs born that way.

 

being gay a choice vs born that way.

It's a lifestyle choice 120 25.53%
 
Your born that way 250 53.19%
 
no opinion 36 7.66%
 
other---for anything I missed 62 13.19%
 
Total:468
sapphi_snake on 18 May 2011
Rath said:

An interesting aside that I feel is somewhat relevant to the topic at hand, it deals with free will and sexuality.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2345971.stm

Quite interesting. It should be noted that he seemd to be interested in sex in general (he made advances at women, and even thought about raping some), and his attractions towards children goes along with his heterosexuality, as children of both sexes have feminine features.

I don't understand though why he was forced to finish that program. He was obviously not in control of his actions. He also shouldn't have a criminal record.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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radiantshadow92 on 18 May 2011
sapphi_snake said:
radiantshadow92 said:
sapphi_snake said:
radiantshadow92 said:


I said it is a random example that i thought up in a second and doesn't mean much. But i was trying to get across what i mean't by nurture, no need to over react. Either way, taste of foods come from a bodily function (im just calling it genetics because im no expert on the matter). Saying that being gay at birth is basically the same thing. And that just leads to things like "Are we born with our personalities?" I sure don't think so. Its two different taste. One taste comes from birth (food taste). One from perceiving what is happening around you, even if you don't know it (Sexuality).

What does personality have to do with this? Sexual arousal is also a bodily function.

(And FTR, personality also has some inborn characteristics, else all people growing up in the same envrinment would be the same)

Its impossible for two people to be born in the same enviorment. Even twins face different enviorments the moment thier parents/friends act slightly different towards one of them. Sexual arousal is a bodily function, but i doubt there is a gay/hertero gene. 

There probably isn't a gay/straight gene, but it doesn't have to be genetic for it to be determined by nature. It can be biologically determined (like that "in the womb" example mantioned by someone earlier). If you're going to blame the environment, you're gonna have to show what exactly are these factors that make someone become gay (and how exactly can they influence a bodily function, 'cause I honestly can't see this happening).

If it isn't a gene, then how the hell can a person be born gay? Its impossible. It has to be something in the body that is predetermined. Which i don't believe in. And by saying that i have to bring evidence i can do the same to you. But to no avail because neither of us are right. Its all just opinions till proven.



sapphi_snake on 18 May 2011
radiantshadow92 said:
sapphi_snake said:
radiantshadow92 said:
sapphi_snake said:
radiantshadow92 said:


I said it is a random example that i thought up in a second and doesn't mean much. But i was trying to get across what i mean't by nurture, no need to over react. Either way, taste of foods come from a bodily function (im just calling it genetics because im no expert on the matter). Saying that being gay at birth is basically the same thing. And that just leads to things like "Are we born with our personalities?" I sure don't think so. Its two different taste. One taste comes from birth (food taste). One from perceiving what is happening around you, even if you don't know it (Sexuality).

What does personality have to do with this? Sexual arousal is also a bodily function.

(And FTR, personality also has some inborn characteristics, else all people growing up in the same envrinment would be the same)

Its impossible for two people to be born in the same enviorment. Even twins face different enviorments the moment thier parents/friends act slightly different towards one of them. Sexual arousal is a bodily function, but i doubt there is a gay/hertero gene. 

There probably isn't a gay/straight gene, but it doesn't have to be genetic for it to be determined by nature. It can be biologically determined (like that "in the womb" example mantioned by someone earlier). If you're going to blame the environment, you're gonna have to show what exactly are these factors that make someone become gay (and how exactly can they influence a bodily function, 'cause I honestly can't see this happening).

If it isn't a gene, then how the hell can a person be born gay? Its impossible. It has to be something in the body that is predetermined. Which i don't believe in. And by saying that i have to bring evidence i can do the same to you. But to no avail because neither of us are right. Its all just opinions till proven.

Actually, your opinion has already been disproven a long time ago. I don't think it's a gene, but I don't have the necessary scientific knowledge to give the proper answer (no one has yet). It's all irrelevant in the end. There's nothing wrong with gayness, regardless of what causes it.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

radiantshadow92 on 18 May 2011
sapphi_snake said:
radiantshadow92 said:
sapphi_snake said:
radiantshadow92 said:
sapphi_snake said:
radiantshadow92 said:


I said it is a random example that i thought up in a second and doesn't mean much. But i was trying to get across what i mean't by nurture, no need to over react. Either way, taste of foods come from a bodily function (im just calling it genetics because im no expert on the matter). Saying that being gay at birth is basically the same thing. And that just leads to things like "Are we born with our personalities?" I sure don't think so. Its two different taste. One taste comes from birth (food taste). One from perceiving what is happening around you, even if you don't know it (Sexuality).

What does personality have to do with this? Sexual arousal is also a bodily function.

(And FTR, personality also has some inborn characteristics, else all people growing up in the same envrinment would be the same)

Its impossible for two people to be born in the same enviorment. Even twins face different enviorments the moment thier parents/friends act slightly different towards one of them. Sexual arousal is a bodily function, but i doubt there is a gay/hertero gene. 

There probably isn't a gay/straight gene, but it doesn't have to be genetic for it to be determined by nature. It can be biologically determined (like that "in the womb" example mantioned by someone earlier). If you're going to blame the environment, you're gonna have to show what exactly are these factors that make someone become gay (and how exactly can they influence a bodily function, 'cause I honestly can't see this happening).

If it isn't a gene, then how the hell can a person be born gay? Its impossible. It has to be something in the body that is predetermined. Which i don't believe in. And by saying that i have to bring evidence i can do the same to you. But to no avail because neither of us are right. Its all just opinions till proven.

Actually, your opinion has already been disproven a long time ago. I don't think it's a gene, but I don't have the necessary scientific knowledge to give the proper answer (no one has yet). It's all irrelevant in the end. There's nothing wrong with gayness, regardless of what causes it.


If it has been disproven then you should really bring it up. I admit that your opinion has not been disproven, but since mine apperently has, you should link me. Its like i said, for one to be born gay, it HAS to be pre determined. The ONLY thing in a human being that is pre determined, are its genes.



Rath on 18 May 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Rath said:

An interesting aside that I feel is somewhat relevant to the topic at hand, it deals with free will and sexuality.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2345971.stm

Quite interesting. It should be noted that he seemd to be interested in sex in general (he made advances at women, and even thought about raping some), and his attractions towards children goes along with his heterosexuality, as children of both sexes have feminine features.

I don't understand though why he was forced to finish that program. He was obviously not in control of his actions. He also shouldn't have a criminal record.

He wasn't insane as such and the justice system simply has to assume free will exists, otherwise it wouldn't work.

Also I wasn't implying that the article had anything directly to do with homosexuality - it didn't - but it can lead to some interesting thoughts on what is a 'choice' and what isn't.



Around the Network
sapphi_snake on 18 May 2011
Rath said:
sapphi_snake said:
Rath said:

An interesting aside that I feel is somewhat relevant to the topic at hand, it deals with free will and sexuality.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2345971.stm

Quite interesting. It should be noted that he seemd to be interested in sex in general (he made advances at women, and even thought about raping some), and his attractions towards children goes along with his heterosexuality, as children of both sexes have feminine features.

I don't understand though why he was forced to finish that program. He was obviously not in control of his actions. He also shouldn't have a criminal record.

He wasn't insane as such and the justice system simply has to assume free will exists, otherwise it wouldn't work.

Also I wasn't implying that the article had anything directly to do with homosexuality - it didn't - but it can lead to some interesting thoughts on what is a 'choice' and what isn't.

But did he have free will in this case?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Rath on 18 May 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Rath said:

He wasn't insane as such and the justice system simply has to assume free will exists, otherwise it wouldn't work.

Also I wasn't implying that the article had anything directly to do with homosexuality - it didn't - but it can lead to some interesting thoughts on what is a 'choice' and what isn't.

But did he have free will in this case?

When it comes down to it, it's quite likely free will is an illusion. We will actually know reasonably soon whether this is the case at the rate science is progressing.

As I said, the justice system relies on the concept that if you are sane you have the ability to make choices. This may be a lie when it comes down to it, but it's a useful lie.



sapphi_snake on 18 May 2011
radiantshadow92 said:
sapphi_snake said:
radiantshadow92 said:
sapphi_snake said:
radiantshadow92 said:
sapphi_snake said:
radiantshadow92 said:


I said it is a random example that i thought up in a second and doesn't mean much. But i was trying to get across what i mean't by nurture, no need to over react. Either way, taste of foods come from a bodily function (im just calling it genetics because im no expert on the matter). Saying that being gay at birth is basically the same thing. And that just leads to things like "Are we born with our personalities?" I sure don't think so. Its two different taste. One taste comes from birth (food taste). One from perceiving what is happening around you, even if you don't know it (Sexuality).

What does personality have to do with this? Sexual arousal is also a bodily function.

(And FTR, personality also has some inborn characteristics, else all people growing up in the same envrinment would be the same)

Its impossible for two people to be born in the same enviorment. Even twins face different enviorments the moment thier parents/friends act slightly different towards one of them. Sexual arousal is a bodily function, but i doubt there is a gay/hertero gene. 

There probably isn't a gay/straight gene, but it doesn't have to be genetic for it to be determined by nature. It can be biologically determined (like that "in the womb" example mantioned by someone earlier). If you're going to blame the environment, you're gonna have to show what exactly are these factors that make someone become gay (and how exactly can they influence a bodily function, 'cause I honestly can't see this happening).

If it isn't a gene, then how the hell can a person be born gay? Its impossible. It has to be something in the body that is predetermined. Which i don't believe in. And by saying that i have to bring evidence i can do the same to you. But to no avail because neither of us are right. Its all just opinions till proven.

Actually, your opinion has already been disproven a long time ago. I don't think it's a gene, but I don't have the necessary scientific knowledge to give the proper answer (no one has yet). It's all irrelevant in the end. There's nothing wrong with gayness, regardless of what causes it.


If it has been disproven then you should really bring it up. I admit that your opinion has not been disproven, but since mine apperently has, you should link me. Its like i said, for one to be born gay, it HAS to be pre determined. The ONLY thing in a human being that is pre determined, are its genes.

Read literature on the matter. Ideeas that the environment influences sexuality have been disproven. As for the bolded, I already mentioned the "in the womb theory", and I'm sure human knowledge of bilology isn't absolute at this moment.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake on 18 May 2011
Rath said:
sapphi_snake said:
Rath said:
 

He wasn't insane as such and the justice system simply has to assume free will exists, otherwise it wouldn't work.

Also I wasn't implying that the article had anything directly to do with homosexuality - it didn't - but it can lead to some interesting thoughts on what is a 'choice' and what isn't.

But did he have free will in this case?

When it comes down to it, it's quite likely free will is an illusion. We will actually know reasonably soon whether this is the case at the rate science is progressing.

As I said, the justice system relies on the concept that if you are sane you have the ability to make choices. This may be a lie when it comes down to it, but it's a useful lie.

But wasn't this man's brain malfunctioning? Isn't that just as if he were insane? He didn't act out of his own free will (if there is such a thing).

BTW, if there is no free will, then what's the instance that causes us to act the way we do?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Rath on 18 May 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Rath said:
sapphi_snake said:
Rath said:
 

He wasn't insane as such and the justice system simply has to assume free will exists, otherwise it wouldn't work.

Also I wasn't implying that the article had anything directly to do with homosexuality - it didn't - but it can lead to some interesting thoughts on what is a 'choice' and what isn't.

But did he have free will in this case?

When it comes down to it, it's quite likely free will is an illusion. We will actually know reasonably soon whether this is the case at the rate science is progressing.

As I said, the justice system relies on the concept that if you are sane you have the ability to make choices. This may be a lie when it comes down to it, but it's a useful lie.

But wasn't this man's brain malfunctioning? Isn't that just as if he were insane? He didn't act out of his own free will (if there is such a thing).

BTW, if there is no free will, then what's the instance that causes us to act the way we do?

Physics essentially, as the universe appears to be largely deterministic it follows that you could predict what actions a person would take based on the state of all the particles in the brain at a point in time. Quantum is one of the few things that could plausibly save free will, as it is not deterministic.

But although this is a very interesting topic, it's also very off topic in this thread.