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Forums - Nintendo - My impressions of SMG and MP3:C

I had one serious issue with Metroid - its NOT a Metroid game - its a FPS. Ninty should have spun off a completely new FPS in the Metroid universe (or just given it a different name, and maybe a different main character) - and it would have been great.

I really wasn't enjoying the game a lot at the start - but did by the end, because I had mentally dropped any concept that I was playing a "Metroid" game.

Too linear, not enough exploration, not enough secrets, etc. And what is with those "satellites"? Doesn't that... like break the game concept?

I spent most of the game collecting missiles... which are... pointless? I still can't work out why I need *a lot* of them.

Its pretty hard to add an awesome FPS control system to a game - and not turn the game into some form of FPS, which is what Metroid is NOT about in any form. I actually found the FPS elements BROKE the autoaiming concept in the game.

...

Metroid Prime II is the far superior "Metroid" game - it just didn't have the polish or attention to detail that MP3 did.



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shams said:
I had one serious issue with Metroid - its NOT a Metroid game - its a FPS. Ninty should have spun off a completely new FPS in the Metroid universe (or just given it a different name, and maybe a different main character) - and it would have been great.

I really wasn't enjoying the game a lot at the start - but did by the end, because I had mentally dropped any concept that I was playing a "Metroid" game.

Too linear, not enough exploration, not enough secrets, etc. And what is with those "satellites"? Doesn't that... like break the game concept?

I spent most of the game collecting missiles... which are... pointless? I still can't work out why I need *a lot* of them.

Its pretty hard to add an awesome FPS control system to a game - and not turn the game into some form of FPS, which is what Metroid is NOT about in any form. I actually found the FPS elements BROKE the autoaiming concept in the game.

...

Metroid Prime II is the far superior "Metroid" game - it just didn't have the polish or attention to detail that MP3 did.

 Did you play Super Metroid?

Because if you have, your post doesn't make much sense... I'm not sure why if you give it a different name and character it only then 'becomes' a great game.

Linear - there's not a single Metroid game that isn't linear, bar the fact I haven't played the new gameboy Metroids, the Fusion(s).  I have played the original Metroid on GB, NES and SNES, as well as the Primes.  Linear is nothing new or old.

Super Metroid started on a sattelite-like platform, although it's a bit different.  While the leap from Mario 1, which contained no overworlds and no route options, MP3 could be made a similar case, having a different layout of how you get around.  I'm not sure this counts as a bad thing... I mean, what's the big deal?

MP2?  Are you really that serious?  Everyone (aside from I guess a few select people) state very firmly how MP2 lacked quality all around, and was -boring- compared to the first, and certainly the infinitely better third installation of the series.

 

I'm just trying to make sense of your comments here.....  it's really....   really.... I dunno, out of whack, against the 99% grains, and in the end, if you don't like Metroid?  Or FPS's?  Why not play the gameboy versions for a more 'classic' feel?

I personally thought Retro did a VERY good job of making the Metroid Prime series feel like the Super Metroid pillar game.  But eh, what do I know? 



Numbers: Checker Players > Halo Players

Checkers Age and replayability > Halo Age and replayability

Therefore, Checkers > Halo

So, Checkers is a better game than Halo.

Metroid's condemnation of having a similar view point as previous Metroid Primes.... wait.... there's more views than first person shooting? I'm confused on why that is bad. I'd hope in the future that if you were to give us ratings on, say Halo, Unreal, etc, that you be sure and rate them just as fairly and state how it's been done before.

I meant that to me the viewpoint, while similar to the previous games, felt constrained and unnatural when combined with the controls of MP3:C. I loved it when it was used in MP and MP2:E.



I disagree with Mario's graphics. I've played it, and it looks very very cool on the eyes, very bright, lots of colors that don't annoy (me), sharp, almost no hint of polygons, it's a completely different appearance than any other game... (we've already discussed the Mario Sunshine to Mario Galaxy comparison in another thread. Needless to say it was locked due to the overwhelming opinion that Galaxy > Sunshine, just from simple comparisons... I don't think you'll win that fight)

Oh, I'm not denying the graphics were awesome. I'm just saying that they could have used the shading, shiny and reflective effects that they obviously took time to develop more times in the game. Sunshine's graphics were 'better' because they could afford to develop one style and have it suit all of the very similar environments (basically tropical beaches). Galaxy was as good as it could have been seeing as the style had to suit every kind of scene imaginable. On playing more of the game, actually, my opinion of the graphics has improved (Melty Molten Galaxy is the best level in a video game ever.)


Honestly, if you had a tough time playing MP3 and you hate games like WarioWare, I think you may have bought the wrong console...

No. All I wanted was Metroid Prime 2's engine with better graphics and a new world map. They over-engineered it and then didn't have enough time to polish the result to something that appeals to the Metroid Prime fans. I basically represent their core audience, so if I don't like it there is a problem. I loved Wario Ware; it just didn't suit a Metroid game.


A lot of the time, people having trouble with the Wiimote lagging also have sensitivity set to an extremely wrong setting. Don't blame the game if the controls seem to lag or be inaccurate; you probably just need to set sensitivity higher. This has been the case in pretty much every complaint post on the GameFAQs forums concerning MP3's controls being "too loose". That, or they were over-exaggerating their movements and/or not watching where their target reticle was aiming.

Well, I didn't know that and its not obvious how or where I should change the settings or even what they should be changed too. You cannot expect your audience to go searching for technical information. The initial conclusion that the game is broken is an understandable working hypothesis.


So you're telling me that, because you suck at FPS games, the controls are horrible?

I don't want to play FPS games. I want to play Metroid Prime. That's why I didn't buy an Xbox 360.


MP3 has the best controls of any console FPS i've ever played. I'm no uber pro FPS player, but I had no problem getting used to MP3's control scheme. But maybe that's becuase i'm a PC gamer(mostly).

Well, I didn't like them. That's my opinion in my post and I can't change it because it's “good for an FPS”.

 

2-player SMG is fantastic for anyone who isn't good at games in general, or a friend who likes to "watch" people play games. Don't count it out just yet.

I have tried it - My brother did the second player and helped a little, but it didn't add much to my or his experience.

 

And there's a lot of complaints about having to shoot at doors that don't open immediately.... most people don't understand that Metroid 'doors' are a way of masking load times and memory issues.

The doors are a great scheme for masking loading, and I accept that it is neccesary to provide the graphics quality in the game. I still don't like how long it takes for the doors to open, however.



The best way to mask load times (and I've seen a few games do this) is to do a form of pre-emptive loading. You have the program make an educated guess on where the player will go next, and load accordingly as they approach. Alternately, you can have the game pre-load each potential area the player can reach from their current area while they're in said current area. It doesn't eliminate load times entirely, and really doesn't work if the player suddenly turns around and goes back the way they came (unless you use cache loading, which some systems lack the available RAM to do effectively), but it works well enough.

That is what they do already. We're lucky the rooms load as fast as they do.



Its pretty hard to add an awesome FPS control system to a game - and not turn the game into some form of FPS, which is what Metroid is NOT about in any form. I actually found the FPS elements BROKE the autoaiming concept in the game.

Bingo!


Metroid Prime II is the far superior "Metroid" game - it just didn't have the polish or attention to detail that MP3 did.

That's my opinion too. Metroid Prime 2 had an improved engine but a lack of insight and effort in the level design in comparison to Metroid Prime. I wanted MP3 to have the MP2 engine's improvements with the inspired design of MP.




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Sounds reasonable. I had many of the same issues with MP3 at the beginning and I also don't play a lot of FPS games. Changing the Wiimote sensitivity helps. Changing the lock-on option can help also. I'm also relieved to hear that your assessment of the "look" of SMG has changed. Isn't Melty Molten spectacular!


I borrowed MP3 from a friend - I wasn't going to play it, cause I really hate FPS games, but he said it was awesome, so I'm giving it a try.

So I'm 3-4 hours in right now, and I have to say... I'm not having fun. I'm constantly confused and don't know what I have to do. And the whole scanning thing is ridiculous. What's the point of having to activate a visor, pressing Z, waiting for some slow scrolling techno babble text, ... just to be allowed to hit a switch?
The graphics are very nice, but often it's hard to distinguish important objects from the background, IMO. Often I'll enter another huge grey-brownish room, and it takes me 10 minutes to even see the objects I'm supposed to interact with.
The controls work great, mostly. Of course I'm having the usual FPS disorientation problems, but that's just me, I know :) Often I'd love to switch to third person view (morph ball gameplay is fun, btw).

Hmm, that probably sounds like I'm a bit dumb. I hope I'm not! Actually, I'd wouldn't consider myself a bad gamer, I finished SMG with 120 stars with no trouble.
But keep in mind that I've
- never played a Metroid game before
- never played a FPS before (save for some minutes of Wolfenstein on my brothers PC, 15 years ago)
- usually don't like combat based gameplay.



Currently playing: NSMB (Wii) 

Waiting for: Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Wii), The Last Story (Wii), Golden Sun (DS), Portal 2 (Wii? or OSX), Metroid: Other M (Wii), 
... and of course Zelda (Wii) 
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Game_boy said:

Well, I didn't know that and its not obvious how or where I should change the settings or even what they should be changed too. You cannot expect your audience to go searching for technical information. The initial conclusion that the game is broken is an understandable working hypothesis.


It would be, if not for the vast majority of gamers loving the controls.  I still think something is wrong with your setup.  If your setup is fine and you still don't like them, that's fine.  It really deserves to be checked out, though.



Listen to the Squirrels!

 

And the Nintendo joy stick!



That is funny, how 3 different active users right now have squirrel aliases and/or avatars...

With any system, there's a learning curve with the controls in general, not just game-specific learning curves. One of the parts of the Wii controls' learning curve is that you have to learn to set sensitivity right. This isn't so different from learning not to jam the analog sticks into the corners of the control area while the system's powering up, learning not to drop the controller when it suddenly starts vibrating, and learning the basic button layouts of the controller so you're not looking down every 5 seconds to see which is which. It's not even particularly obscure, either. Unless you're determined to never check the system settings, even when something seems awry, you're bound to notice the Sensitivity setting.



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My only gripes with the games was that Galaxy was too easy for me and MP3 was to short. And Samus needs some kind of close counters melee attack. Its annoying as hell to bash the A button when their a foot away from you.



It would be nifty if Samus had something like a Space Pirate's energy blade, and used it at close range by swinging the Wiimote. Ah well, something for the next 3D Metroid, I guess...



Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.