1. I'm ignoring those "points" because they're quite silly and obvious.

The Cafe is releasing next Year. Yeah we all know this. We all also know that it's one more Year of Nintendo supporting the Wii for the last 3 Months of the Year again. This doesn't mean that the Wii isn't dying. See it as... Life support

2. I never claimed that lowering sales alone will mean Nintendo drops it straight away. I actually gave it like 2 Years after Cafe released to milk it for the $$.

I think I summed the Wii's next couple of Years up nicely with this - "Sales are in free fall. Support is dwindling. Successor is on the way. It's dying."

The problem is this thread is NOT about who's definition of "dying" for the system is write. The point IS the OP, so if you aren't discussing it (although you seem to be agreeing with it), you are off topic (and I'm not claiming I've never been guilty of that).

I said that "So saying they have no games coming out when they don't have anything announced is assuming?  No that is just the current reality of the situation."

Which it is. That is almost the exact same statement as "Well at this point in time there isn't anything in production I know about. That's not bull. That is the sum of the total information Nintendo has made available."

The total sum of information that Nintendo has released is the current reality of the situation.  Nothing in production I know about means no games to be announced to come out. I don't have to have anything two ways.

I have already said I don't KNOW if they have titles in production and I'm not assuming that they do.  If they want me to do otherwise they can release some info about Wii software.  I may be wrong but I can't know until Nintendo releases more info.  I personally doubt they have much if anything in production for Wii. What they have taken the time to announce instead of more software for Wii is more 3DS software and new hardware which makes it even harder for me to assume they have titles in production for Wii.

Okay, let's chalk it up to me getting very confused by your statements before.

I'm just throwing out that Nintendo needs at least two more big holidays for the Wii, possibly more depending on the reception of the next system. So whatever they haven't announced, it's going to be big because they have to have big games.

They might not, but whatever is announced at E3 will show if they want a couple last big pushes or have truly given up.

You're assuming/hoping that this whole PSN fiasco is going to have some huge detrimental effect on PS3 sales, when there is no sales data for this time frame and polls already reflect that the majority of PSN users just want to keep playing online through the service.

360 sales weren't effected during the two weeks XBL went down in 2008 and that was during the holiday season.

Look up the charts for yourself to see the comparative changes in marketshare and weekly sales; don't be ignorant.

One doesn't even need a chart to see when the Wii was selling more than the PS3 and 360 combined and is now roughly matching the sales of either console on a weekly basis, that sales dropped massively by comparison.

More importantly, this is a YoY trend that isn't going to change.

Rats leaving a sinking ship is the analogy if you're angry at the turn of events for the Wii.

Leaving for greener pastures (from Wii to Cafe) is the analogy if you're a developer.

Getting off the Wii hype train is the other for a lot of consumers who bought in because it was a fun trend and have either stopped using their Wii, sold it, or just as importantly, have stopped buying games for it.

After Nintendo's big E3 Project Cafe presentation, the Wii will be accepted by all for what it's become; a legacy system. In other words a dying platform with no future beyond entry level cost.

You make a thread entitled "The Wii is not dead or dying" and you call it derailing and off-topic when people try to define and solidify in terms just what "dying" would entail?

That makes no sense. If your title does not directly pertain to the OP, then the title is misleading. If the OP and thread title are relevantly tied, there is no reason to complain over people wanting to define what would signify death in this instance.

To me, it seems like you simply want people to either agree with you or discuss everything on your exact terms, which were never fully outlined to begin with.

The difference being that Cafe isn't greener pastures, just another place for them to dump all the vanilla multiplats that third party development has become

To a swarm of locusts, a new field to strip is a greener pasture!

^yeah, the PS3 keeps hanging in there and continues to sell lots of software, all that and  it's yet to play the "$200 price-tag card", which both its competitors played a long time ago. Wii has no cards left to play, the 360 got a nice boost playing the "Kinect card", and it will still maintain momentum because a very obvious reason: great games coming for all platforms not named Wii.