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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The most powerful systems are never the sales leader

fallen said:

If the most powerful never wins, why didn't Sony make the Ps3 less powerful than the PS2 and cost $79?

 

Simple question.

 

If anybody who thinks most powerful doesnt win can answer it satisfactorily, I will surrender.

They didn't because video game manufacture always increase the power over previous generations.  No manufacture would every downgrade power for the next generation.  It is the amount of power/cost that is in question.  Making a very powerful system usually means that inflates the price due to having to include newer technology.  What Sony should have done was design a system that was on par with 360 or slightly above it with parts (GPU, Memory, etc) that would have kept it in the 350-400 price range for launch.  They didn't and included the IBM cell microprocessor which you could probably find similar results with a cheaper option.  Including the Blu-Ray drive back then didn't help either (since they were pretty damn expensive when it first launched).  There were cheaper options available which they would have sacrificed some power.  However, they could have released a more consumer friendly price tag which would have probably guaranteed their spot on top again.  Nope they had to go the route of almost "PC mentality".  Thinking if they just put the most expensive/most recent technology in a system and slap the PS name on it that it would sell no matter the cost.  There are reasonable technological advances video game manufacturers should strive for their next generation machine that don't put the price out of consumers pockets.  They have to balance performance with price.  If you can't balance those then you are destined to enter a console race with one hand tied behind your back.   Also, they need one more thing to sell: Games.

Wii - didn't have too much performance upgrade but offered something new at a low launch price

360 - offered a good performance upgrade and had a semi decent launch price

PS3 - offered an even better performance upgrade than 360 with included features such as Blu-ray but a very bad launch price



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The 16-bit era was the SNES, the Sega Megadrive (or Genesis), and the PC-Engine (or Turbografx-16), The Neo-Geo doesn't count as it was not intended to be a direct competition on the other 3, it was not available everywhere, it was a 1:1 arcade port, and the price was put for selling at a profit in a low volume, it was an elite system for a few people...

The PC-Engine was powerful compared to the NES, but compared to the other two it lacked a lot, it had a 8-bit CPU with a good clock speed, and it was really crippled on inputs and outputs. The Genesis had the clock speed, faster than the SNES one, but the SNES won with the CPU-architecture, sound capabilities, the amazing Mode-7 and the inclusion of the enhancement chips, the two most famous were the Super FX and the CX4...

So bottom line, the 16-bit era was the only one where the selling ranking was on par with the console power... Super Nes 1st overall, Genesis 2nd overall and Turbografx 3rd overall...



fallen said:

This is false, the most powerful system (or close) always wins given enough time.

This is why Dreamcast died, Saturn, Jaguar, 3DO, they all died because they weren't powerful enough. They came out early in a generation, and more powerful consoles eclipsed them.

This is also why Xbox beat Gamecube even though Gamecube had a HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEE software lineup advantage (I remember Nintendo fans telling me over and over at the time, Xbox was dead as soon as Mario came out, as soon as Zelda, as soon as Starfox, whichever, they were wrong every time).

1 Also, if you say Wii won even though it's less powerful, it really didn't. The PS3 and 360 are more or less the same console, with mostly the same games. The fact they split the HD market doesnt matter, any more than if the hypothetical apple wagglemaster took half of Wii sales and say, PS3 was the only HD console and "dominated" the market. Combined, the Ps3 and 360 are beating the Wii very easily now. More homes own a HD console, and they buy far far more software, than Wii hardware or software (and the gap is growing very fast lately, in most markets they are outselling Wii at least 2-1, 3-1 in software).

This is also why Ps3 fans are obessed with proving that Ps3 is more powerful than 360, and why most of their posts are about graphics, how much better than 360 supposedly Ps3 exclusives look, etc. Because they know how important it is. If it wasnt important, then why are most PS3 fans post across the internet about PS3 exclusives games supposedly great graphics?

 

2 Also, most people say N64 was more powerful than PS1. It wasnt, so stop that right there. PS1 could process more polygons than N64 and thats technical fact.

The only more powerful console that didn't win was Xbox, but it would have won if that generation had gone on forever, and moreover it did much better than expected, and it beat the Gamecube which had every advantage (price, software, brand recognition) except one, power.

 

Also, people saying the Genesis was more powerful than SNES are wrong. The SNES had more colors (256 colors onscreen versus 64 for Sega), mode 7 scaling and rotation, and far better audio. The colors alone made SNES games look much better than Genesis ones. Just look at Donkey Kong Country, that game was considering amazing at it's time almost as good as 32 bit games, and there was nothing like it on Genesis. Genesis and SNES were very similar in power it's true, that's why they sold similar, but SNES gets the nod.

Neo Geo clearly was the most powerful, but come on. The games cost $200. It wasnt reasonably priced. Lets not be ridiculous here. Stay within reason.

 

Put it this way, if power didnt matter, there would never be new consoles. Why wouldn't Sony just stay with the Ps2?? Why did they bother making PS3 at all??? PS3 lost billions but Ps2 hardware was highly profitable. Because Xbox 360 graphics would have killed the PS2 eventually and everybody knows it! If you can understand that, then you can understand that power always wins, it's not arguable. If you think it doesnt, then why didnt Sony make the Ps3 LESS powerful than the PS2?? After all it would have beemn cheaper, and given it the best chance to win since most powerful never wins!!

 

(haha, that last was obviously a joke, yet is a serious question too).

Even Wii is kind of struggling now because of it's lack of power. We all know it gets zero third party support, and is struggling with a lack of longevity right now. Wii is a bit of an exception to the power rules though as it sold on a gimmick.

1. Agreed.

2. No. Just no. That is a load of shit and you know it. Provide some links. Maybe I might believe you.



The reason the most powerful system rarely leads the market is because, in order for a system to be the most powerful system, these systems tend to come with several significant disadvantages. The two most obvious disadvantages are price (often these systems launch at $100 or more above than the market leader) and being released later (often a year or more after the market leader).



fallen said:

1.  This is false, the most powerful system (or close) always wins given enough time.

2.  Also, most people say N64 was more powerful than PS1. It wasnt, so stop that right there. PS1 could process more polygons than N64 and thats technical fact.

3.  The only more powerful console that didn't win was Xbox, but it would have won if that generation had gone on forever...

1.  Saying the most powerful system always wins is false.

2.  The PS1 certainly had some advantages over the N64 (storage space, crisper sound).  And while I have heard that the PS1 could calculate more polys as you mentioned, I believe it was for basic, flat-shaded only.  Once texture mapping, effects, etc were added for an actual game environment, the N64 pushed more, and it was certainly more powerful overall (faster cpu speed, better texture mapping, more color, anti aliasing, Z buffering).

3.  Uh, I hope you don't really believe that.



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Just on the N64 vs. Playstation ...

Check out the games for both systems ( N64: http://ign64.ign.com/  Playstation: http://psx.ign.com/ ) and it should be very clear that, in real world performance, the N64 was significantly more powerful than the Playstation.

 

Edit: On top of this, the argument about the Playstation being able to calculate more polygons is entirely false; the Playstation did not have dedicated 3D hardware and was at a significant disadvantage.

There was an old argument that the PS2 was better able to calculate raw polygons than the Gamecube but that was based (almost entirely) on the technical specifications released by the companies. Nintendo claimed that the Gamecube could produce 12 to 15 million polygons per second in game (which it eventually did), and Sony claimed that the PS2 could produce 66 million polygons per second even though the best PS2 games only achieved 10% of that.



Wagram said:

PS2 wasn't the best graphically but it's pretty much inargueable that the PS2s library laid waste and total decimation to the competition.

Still, not the most powerful, that is the point of the thread.

I wish Wii have at least the half of the support that PS2 has...



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fallen said:

Also, if you say Wii won even though it's less powerful, it really didn't. The PS3 and 360 are more or less the same console, with mostly the same games. The fact they split the HD market doesnt matter, any more than if the hypothetical apple wagglemaster took half of Wii sales and say, PS3 was the only HD console and "dominated" the market. Combined, the Ps3 and 360 are beating the Wii very easily now. More homes own a HD console, and they buy far far more software, than Wii hardware or software (and the gap is growing very fast lately, in most markets they are outselling Wii at least 2-1, 3-1 in software).

It seems silly to lump the 360 and the PS3 together to say graphics matter. The two weakest systems combined (360 and Wii) trounce the more powerful PS3, which proves power alone doesn't win a console war.



It's just because most of the winners in a console generation were released before the losers when talking about the major competitors, moores law dictates that later consoles would typically on average be more powerful. The fact that the most powerful consoles haven't won is more a result of other factors.

 

 



Tease.

if the wii was as powerful, nevermind more, it would have twice as many sales as it currentlys has, and there wouldn't be a single 3rd party that wouldn't be supporting it the shit out it. It'd have BETTER support than the ps2 and ps3 would have been in real deep shit