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Forums - PC - 12 Ways Consoles Are Hurting PC Gaming

cory.ok on 02 April 2011
ssj12 said:
vlad321 said:
dobby985 said:
cory.ok said:
Zkuq said:
zarx said:

pah they didn't make Dragon age 2 for the "console" crowd they made it for the CoD crowd. They even came out and said that they were making an RPG that people that think they can't play RPGs because they are to complex.

I always felt the made it for the Mass Effect crowd.

cory.ok said:

1. there was also a mention of bad ports to computers, from my presopective computer gamers should be thanking the consoles for those ports, without the huge instal base of consoles there wouldnt be enough money to go around for the developers, meaning no game at all in many cases.

2. and one last point about dedicated servers, if a game doesnt get a dedicated server its not because of a console (console games can have dedicated servers too!) but rather a buisness decision, just a way to cut the cost of upkeep.

1. Without consoles, we'd be pretty close to having only PC gaming. Obviously in such case, PC games would sell a lot better and maybe we'd actually get content instead of all money spent on graphics and such.

2. PC game servers are typically paid for by gamers, not publishers, meaning it's not that different for the publisher whether they use dedicated servers or p2p.

1. even if there was only pc gaming, the barrier to entry for pc gaming is much higher, not everyone who buys a console would buy a gaming computer.

2. i cant think of any games where the playerbase, rather than a develop or publisher, supplies dedicated servers that are used, could you help me out?

CS:S, CS 1.6, DoD:S, TF2 etc...

UTs, Quakes, BFs,.....


COD 1 - 4, WarRock, Warsaw, L4D (yes there are dedicated servers), serious sam, Monday Night Combat, The Ship, GTR Revolution, Eternal Silence, America's Army. Alien Swarm, Sin, Killing Floor, RACE On, Mare Nostrum, Zombie Panic. Mount & Blade.

Do we need to list more?

while im not going to look up every game you listed, games like cs are modded by players and then hosted by the player, but its not on dedicated servers. ps3 (360 cant but thats a different discussion) can support the same thing thats happening in this situation, it just hasnt happened yet. cant really help your argument that consoles are hurting pc gaming



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vlad321 on 02 April 2011
Mr Puggsly said:
vlad321 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
vlad321 said:
Slimebeast said:
Mr Puggsly said:

What a bullshit article, its piracy that's hurting PC gaming. PC isn't the main focus of developers because it generates significantly less profits than consoles.

Developers could definitely raise the bar by taking advantage of modern PC gaming technology. But what's the point? The masses are just going to steal it.

Yeah, it's as simple as that.


And the consoles have the used game market, which hurts the developers more than any piracy. Even if you assume piracy is as bad (which is a luaghabley wrong assumption in itself), the used game market is worse.

Hmmm... bullshit.

The Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, and DS deal with the used sales, rentals, and piracy. Yet they still do a significantly better job at selling games than the PC.

Just take a look at all the PC game sales we see on every digital distribution site. That's developers trying collect whatever money they can from the PC gaming market thanks rampant piracy. There are also endless free games to play on PC and that's huge competition for games being sold.


They don't deal with any of those, especially used sales. Used sales are as damaging to the developer as piracy. The reason PC games don't sell much in recent times is the exact topic of this thread. Games have been sucking hard. Unlike consoles, I can play games from before this generation so I don't have to buy the crap from this one, therefore I buy less.

You say used sales are as damaging as piracy with no argument. Your statment has no ground.

One key thing to remember about used games on the market is they were sold and the publishers/developers made a profit for that sale at one time. A pirated game was never sold and no profit was ever made. Hence, piracy is more damaging and too many PC gamers are used to their games being free.

Your argument about games sucking this generation is an opinion and irrelevant. Regardless how you feel about them, many PC gamers are still playing them but too many are stealing. That's hurting the PC gaming industry more so than consoles ever could.


And you state piracy is damaging without an argument. Your statement has no ground as well. My argument is simple. When you go buy a game used, the developer sees nothing. You play the game for free, as far as the developer is concerned. Same as piracy.

A pirated game is also bought initially. Someone had to buy it to crack it open. 

Explain to me then, why is it that piracy was not this rampant before this generation? Also explain to me how the better games on the PC don't see nowhere near as much piracy? SC2 was barely 5th last year, and many people thought it was a waste of money as well. Meanwhile Black Ops was barely out for 3 weeks and was #1 overwhelmingly. What you are saying, or what you want to believe, is not supported by the data, therefore you are wrong. Not to mention that there are many studies out there that p[irates spend more on media than non-pirates. That also kind of ruins your entire belief. I expect your pispoor counter-argument which will probably be debunked by statistics.



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Kasz216 on 02 April 2011
oniyide said:

@vlad  acevil pretty much gave you my answer and besides from what ive seen mods are mostly huge on the FPSs, which i really dont care too much about anyway. 


mods are mostly huge on the FPS?

Er...

no?

 

Mods are generally the biggest in RPGs and Strategy games.... they're everywhere though.

Civilization, you get all kinds of new civs, new units, new scenarios, whole new games. 

Rpgs generally have new sidequests and occasionally, a full new story.

Heck, I look at mount an blade an adventure game, holy shit the mods for this... a lot of em have completely new gameplay.

 

People mod FPS a lot, but that's because it's easy, but on PC you can mod all kinds of stuff.



Kasz216 on 02 April 2011
ssj12 said:
vlad321 said:
dobby985 said:
cory.ok said:
Zkuq said:
zarx said:

pah they didn't make Dragon age 2 for the "console" crowd they made it for the CoD crowd. They even came out and said that they were making an RPG that people that think they can't play RPGs because they are to complex.

I always felt the made it for the Mass Effect crowd.

cory.ok said:

1. there was also a mention of bad ports to computers, from my presopective computer gamers should be thanking the consoles for those ports, without the huge instal base of consoles there wouldnt be enough money to go around for the developers, meaning no game at all in many cases.

2. and one last point about dedicated servers, if a game doesnt get a dedicated server its not because of a console (console games can have dedicated servers too!) but rather a buisness decision, just a way to cut the cost of upkeep.

1. Without consoles, we'd be pretty close to having only PC gaming. Obviously in such case, PC games would sell a lot better and maybe we'd actually get content instead of all money spent on graphics and such.

2. PC game servers are typically paid for by gamers, not publishers, meaning it's not that different for the publisher whether they use dedicated servers or p2p.

1. even if there was only pc gaming, the barrier to entry for pc gaming is much higher, not everyone who buys a console would buy a gaming computer.

2. i cant think of any games where the playerbase, rather than a develop or publisher, supplies dedicated servers that are used, could you help me out?

CS:S, CS 1.6, DoD:S, TF2 etc...

UTs, Quakes, BFs,.....


COD 1 - 4, WarRock, Warsaw, L4D (yes there are dedicated servers), serious sam, Monday Night Combat, The Ship, GTR Revolution, Eternal Silence, America's Army. Alien Swarm, Sin, Killing Floor, RACE On, Mare Nostrum, Zombie Panic. Mount & Blade.

Do we need to list more?


Also Team Fortress 2.  I mean, it's basically the default. 



Mr Puggsly on 02 April 2011
vlad321 said:


And you state piracy is damaging without an argument. Your statement has no ground as well. My argument is simple. When you go buy a game used, the developer sees nothing. You play the game for free, as far as the developer is concerned. Same as piracy.

A pirated game is also bought initially. Someone had to buy it to crack it open. 

Explain to me then, why is it that piracy was not this rampant before this generation? Also explain to me how the better games on the PC don't see nowhere near as much piracy? SC2 was barely 5th last year, and many people thought it was a waste of money as well. Meanwhile Black Ops was barely out for 3 weeks and was #1 overwhelmingly. What you are saying, or what you want to believe, is not supported by the data, therefore you are wrong. Not to mention that there are many studies out there that p[irates spend more on media than non-pirates. That also kind of ruins your entire belief. I expect your pispoor counter-argument which will probably be debunked by statistics.

Right, that one PC game sold potentially goes out to millions of pirates. For a used game to be sold million of times it would have to have sold millions already. The sales of used games also doesn't get consumers accustomed to games being free. This is a ridiculous argument, its just common sense that piracy is worse.

Piracy wasn't this rampant in the past because we didn't have the same technology in the past. Broadband connections is in more homes and cheaper than ever. BitTorrents have also made sharing easier than ever.

SC2 and Black Ops are popular PC games, but they still sell significantly less than many popular console games. Also, SC2 and Black Ops is no reflection on typical PC game sales.

This data you're talking about... who knows where that even came from or who they polled? There is data you're ignoring that shows how massively PC games are pirated. And just looking at where most of the software support is, its pretty obvious that most studios can not depend on PC.



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ssj12 on 02 April 2011
cory.ok said:
ssj12 said:
vlad321 said:
dobby985 said:
cory.ok said:
Zkuq said:
zarx said:

pah they didn't make Dragon age 2 for the "console" crowd they made it for the CoD crowd. They even came out and said that they were making an RPG that people that think they can't play RPGs because they are to complex.

I always felt the made it for the Mass Effect crowd.

cory.ok said:

1. there was also a mention of bad ports to computers, from my presopective computer gamers should be thanking the consoles for those ports, without the huge instal base of consoles there wouldnt be enough money to go around for the developers, meaning no game at all in many cases.

2. and one last point about dedicated servers, if a game doesnt get a dedicated server its not because of a console (console games can have dedicated servers too!) but rather a buisness decision, just a way to cut the cost of upkeep.

1. Without consoles, we'd be pretty close to having only PC gaming. Obviously in such case, PC games would sell a lot better and maybe we'd actually get content instead of all money spent on graphics and such.

2. PC game servers are typically paid for by gamers, not publishers, meaning it's not that different for the publisher whether they use dedicated servers or p2p.

1. even if there was only pc gaming, the barrier to entry for pc gaming is much higher, not everyone who buys a console would buy a gaming computer.

2. i cant think of any games where the playerbase, rather than a develop or publisher, supplies dedicated servers that are used, could you help me out?

CS:S, CS 1.6, DoD:S, TF2 etc...

UTs, Quakes, BFs,.....


COD 1 - 4, WarRock, Warsaw, L4D (yes there are dedicated servers), serious sam, Monday Night Combat, The Ship, GTR Revolution, Eternal Silence, America's Army. Alien Swarm, Sin, Killing Floor, RACE On, Mare Nostrum, Zombie Panic. Mount & Blade.

Do we need to list more?

while im not going to look up every game you listed, games like cs are modded by players and then hosted by the player, but its not on dedicated servers. ps3 (360 cant but thats a different discussion) can support the same thing thats happening in this situation, it just hasnt happened yet. cant really help your argument that consoles are hurting pc gaming


Umm...

http://www.ehow.com/how_5194716_setup-strike-source-dedicated-server.html

http://www.cstrike-planet.com/tutorial/1-Windows-Install-CS-16/4

 

So yes, they do have dedicated servers... all you need to do is have the mod files in the directories they are supposed to for mods to run on a server.

Ill admit though, I prefer the style BF1942 and BF2 uses for servers. Buy one, shove files onto it, install certain files to it, give IP address.



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cory.ok on 02 April 2011
ssj12 said:
cory.ok said:
ssj12 said:
vlad321 said:
dobby985 said:
cory.ok said:
Zkuq said:
zarx said:

pah they didn't make Dragon age 2 for the "console" crowd they made it for the CoD crowd. They even came out and said that they were making an RPG that people that think they can't play RPGs because they are to complex.

I always felt the made it for the Mass Effect crowd.

cory.ok said:

1. there was also a mention of bad ports to computers, from my presopective computer gamers should be thanking the consoles for those ports, without the huge instal base of consoles there wouldnt be enough money to go around for the developers, meaning no game at all in many cases.

2. and one last point about dedicated servers, if a game doesnt get a dedicated server its not because of a console (console games can have dedicated servers too!) but rather a buisness decision, just a way to cut the cost of upkeep.

1. Without consoles, we'd be pretty close to having only PC gaming. Obviously in such case, PC games would sell a lot better and maybe we'd actually get content instead of all money spent on graphics and such.

2. PC game servers are typically paid for by gamers, not publishers, meaning it's not that different for the publisher whether they use dedicated servers or p2p.

1. even if there was only pc gaming, the barrier to entry for pc gaming is much higher, not everyone who buys a console would buy a gaming computer.

2. i cant think of any games where the playerbase, rather than a develop or publisher, supplies dedicated servers that are used, could you help me out?

CS:S, CS 1.6, DoD:S, TF2 etc...

UTs, Quakes, BFs,.....


COD 1 - 4, WarRock, Warsaw, L4D (yes there are dedicated servers), serious sam, Monday Night Combat, The Ship, GTR Revolution, Eternal Silence, America's Army. Alien Swarm, Sin, Killing Floor, RACE On, Mare Nostrum, Zombie Panic. Mount & Blade.

Do we need to list more?

while im not going to look up every game you listed, games like cs are modded by players and then hosted by the player, but its not on dedicated servers. ps3 (360 cant but thats a different discussion) can support the same thing thats happening in this situation, it just hasnt happened yet. cant really help your argument that consoles are hurting pc gaming


Umm...

http://www.ehow.com/how_5194716_setup-strike-source-dedicated-server.html

http://www.cstrike-planet.com/tutorial/1-Windows-Install-CS-16/4

 

So yes, they do have dedicated servers... 

as ive never done it before i cant be positive which, but thats either something thats going to be ran off your own, home computer (which is not a dedicated server, and also quite illegal), in which case they are using the term dedicated server very loosly (and innapropriately), or its ran by steam in which case it defeats the purpose of your argument.

either way, ps3 can support the same thing, which doesnt help  your argument that console gaming is hurting computer gaming

edit: after thinking about it, illegal is too strong a word, more accurately, you need to buy a seperate license from your isp to host things like this



dobby985 on 02 April 2011
cory.ok said:
ssj12 said:
vlad321 said:
dobby985 said:
cory.ok said:
Zkuq said:
zarx said:

pah they didn't make Dragon age 2 for the "console" crowd they made it for the CoD crowd. They even came out and said that they were making an RPG that people that think they can't play RPGs because they are to complex.

I always felt the made it for the Mass Effect crowd.

cory.ok said:

1. there was also a mention of bad ports to computers, from my presopective computer gamers should be thanking the consoles for those ports, without the huge instal base of consoles there wouldnt be enough money to go around for the developers, meaning no game at all in many cases.

2. and one last point about dedicated servers, if a game doesnt get a dedicated server its not because of a console (console games can have dedicated servers too!) but rather a buisness decision, just a way to cut the cost of upkeep.

1. Without consoles, we'd be pretty close to having only PC gaming. Obviously in such case, PC games would sell a lot better and maybe we'd actually get content instead of all money spent on graphics and such.

2. PC game servers are typically paid for by gamers, not publishers, meaning it's not that different for the publisher whether they use dedicated servers or p2p.

1. even if there was only pc gaming, the barrier to entry for pc gaming is much higher, not everyone who buys a console would buy a gaming computer.

2. i cant think of any games where the playerbase, rather than a develop or publisher, supplies dedicated servers that are used, could you help me out?

CS:S, CS 1.6, DoD:S, TF2 etc...

UTs, Quakes, BFs,.....


COD 1 - 4, WarRock, Warsaw, L4D (yes there are dedicated servers), serious sam, Monday Night Combat, The Ship, GTR Revolution, Eternal Silence, America's Army. Alien Swarm, Sin, Killing Floor, RACE On, Mare Nostrum, Zombie Panic. Mount & Blade.

Do we need to list more?

while im not going to look up every game you listed, games like cs are modded by players and then hosted by the player, but its not on dedicated servers. ps3 (360 cant but thats a different discussion) can support the same thing thats happening in this situation, it just hasnt happened yet. cant really help your argument that consoles are hurting pc gaming

Oh yeah, what on earth is this then?

And what do you mean "im not going to look up every game you listed" ?

It's a well known fact that pc gamers/clans host their own dedicated servers. That's how it's always been.



ssj12 on 02 April 2011
cory.ok said:
ssj12 said:
cory.ok said:
 

while im not going to look up every game you listed, games like cs are modded by players and then hosted by the player, but its not on dedicated servers. ps3 (360 cant but thats a different discussion) can support the same thing thats happening in this situation, it just hasnt happened yet. cant really help your argument that consoles are hurting pc gaming


Umm...

http://www.ehow.com/how_5194716_setup-strike-source-dedicated-server.html

http://www.cstrike-planet.com/tutorial/1-Windows-Install-CS-16/4

 

So yes, they do have dedicated servers... 

as ive never done it before i cant be positive which, but thats either something thats going to be ran off your own, home computer (which is not a dedicated server, and also quite illegal), in which case they are using the term dedicated server very loosly (and innapropriately), or its ran by steam in which case it defeats the purpose of your argument.

either way, ps3 can support the same thing, which doesnt help  your argument that console gaming is hurting computer gaming

ONE. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO RUN SERVERS AT HOME. AND CALLING IT A SERVER IS COMPLETELY LEGAL BECAUSE IT IS A SERVER YOUR HOSTING!!!

TWO. YOU CAN RUN A SERVER OFF A HOME PC. HOW DO YOU THINK PEOPLE RUN DLNA MEDIA SERVERS? MAGIC?

THREE. IF YOU RUN A PC, AND LEAVE IT ON WITH A SERVER APPLICATION RUNNING CONSTANTLY, ITS A SERVER!!!! ITS JUST THAT YOU CANNOT USE THAT PC FOR ANYTHING ELSE BUT A SERVER UNTIL YOU SHUT THE SERVER(S) DOWN!

FOUR. A SERVER IS PC. SO A PC IS A SERVER. YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW WTF YOUR DOING!!!!!.  

FIVE. THE CONSOLE GAME WARHAWK ALLOWED YOU TO HOST A DEDICATED SERVER OFF YOUR OWN CONSOLE, HELL IT GIVES YOU A TROPHY FOR IT. GUESS WHAT? WHEN THE SERVER SOFTWARE IS RUNNING, YOU CANNOT PLAY THE GAME UNTIL YOU SHUTDOWN THE SERVER!!!

SIX. YOU DO NOT NEED A LICENSE TO RUN A PRIVATE SERVER FROM YOUR ISP. NOT A PRIVATE GAME SERVER. MAYBE IF YOU PLAN ON HAVING IT RUN 24/7 365, HAVE WEBSITES ON IT, AND MANY OTHER RELATED THINGS,  BUT IF YOUR GOING TO DO THAT, WHY THE HELL DO YOU HAVE AN ISP WHEN YOU CAN BE YOUR OWN ISP?

 

I hate typing in all caps.. but geez, you made me have to do it.



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cory.ok on 02 April 2011
ssj12 said:
cory.ok said:
ssj12 said:
cory.ok said:
 

while im not going to look up every game you listed, games like cs are modded by players and then hosted by the player, but its not on dedicated servers. ps3 (360 cant but thats a different discussion) can support the same thing thats happening in this situation, it just hasnt happened yet. cant really help your argument that consoles are hurting pc gaming


Umm...

http://www.ehow.com/how_5194716_setup-strike-source-dedicated-server.html

http://www.cstrike-planet.com/tutorial/1-Windows-Install-CS-16/4

 

So yes, they do have dedicated servers... 

as ive never done it before i cant be positive which, but thats either something thats going to be ran off your own, home computer (which is not a dedicated server, and also quite illegal), in which case they are using the term dedicated server very loosly (and innapropriately), or its ran by steam in which case it defeats the purpose of your argument.

either way, ps3 can support the same thing, which doesnt help  your argument that console gaming is hurting computer gaming

ONE. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO RUN SERVERS AT HOME. AND CALLING IT A SERVER IS COMPLETELY LEGAL BECAUSE IT IS A SERVER YOUR HOSTING!!!

TWO. YOU CAN RUN A SERVER OFF A HOME PC. HOW DO YOU THINK PEOPLE RUN DLNA MEDIA SERVERS? MAGIC?

THREE. IF YOU RUN A PC, AND LEAVE IT ON WITH A SERVER APPLICATION RUNNING CONSTANTLY, ITS A SERVER!!!! ITS JUST THAT YOU CANNOT USE THAT PC FOR ANYTHING ELSE BUT A SERVER UNTIL YOU SHUT THE SERVER(S) DOWN!

FOUR. A SERVER IS PC. SO A PC IS A SERVER. YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW WTF YOUR DOING!!!!!.  

FIVE. THE CONSOLE GAME WARHAWK ALLOWED YOU TO HOST A DEDICATED SERVER OFF YOUR OWN CONSOLE, HELL IT GIVES YOU A TROPHY FOR IT. GUESS WHAT? WHEN THE SERVER SOFTWARE IS RUNNING, YOU CANNOT PLAY THE GAME UNTIL YOU SHUTDOWN THE SERVER!!!

lol going a little insane? i never said that having a server is illegal, and i edited my post a few seconds after posting to say illegal was too strong a word. but anyways what i was saying is that to host things like games isps need you to pay extra licensing fees. its called a fair usage in the US and its called something else in the uk, but its the same principal everywhere.

i think you guys are a little confused as to what a dedicated server actually is and what people call a dedicated server. its also a moot point if warhawk is allowing you to do what you think is a dedicated server also as it shows that consoles arent holding pc gaming back