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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

Spankey said:
fordy said:
Spankey said:
fordy said:
Spankey said:
 

but you see, he cited one which can be attached to homebrew apps which are not developed, suported or distributed by Sony.

Putting a DKNY badge on a wallet does not make it automatically a wallet made by DKNY if you see what I'm getting at.

 

Except the only boundaries are whether the PS3 accepts it or not. Code signing is a simple mathematical equation if you CITE the number. Besdes your argument is flawed because Sony use the same key for everything, whereas ISBNs and UPCs require one code per product.

And for the record, there is talk about replacing the ISBNs with GUIDs, effectively dissolving the foundation to no more than just a checker for doubleups, so your argument doesn't hold up there, either.


you still don't get my point.

so what if Sony uses the same key to sign every piece of software they autherise?

The point is that GeoHot is not Sony and should have no right to sign something as coming from Sony when he is not Sony. he's flogging fake Sony goods to the PS3 and has told others how to do the same.

GUID is just another number generated and distributed by a protected system. Just like ISBN. There is or will be a controlling body who will assign the numbers. The same will hold true, you won't be allowed to generate a number privately and then claim it came from them, so i don't see how that's too different at all.

 

Okay, let's assume your vague assumption has any chance of standing in court. In that case:

1. there would have to be a governing body who monitors security keys by corporations. Not only is it not in the corporations interest to be giving them out, it's not the government's interest to be providing backup for stolen keys from corporations. No. it's how Sony id's something that theirs and or comes from them or their stable in their own internal system (like a product number). I.E Sony is the governing body here.

2. Sony would have had to have registered their key with that body. see 1

3. No two companies would be allowed to have the same key. Irrelevant. it is unlikely that one legit company would try pass itself or it's software as anothers. remember GeoHots method allows PS3's to run fake software (or homebrew etc.) as if it came from Sony.

4. The code signing system would only be allowed to accept numbers registered with this governing body. This is what Geohot has circumvented in the PS3 hack.

The similarity is way too vague for any enforcement, and the idea of enforcement requires ludicrous rues to be put in place.

Sony cannot just declare by themselves "this is our number, and anything published with it shall be ours" to thin air and expect it to hold up in court. Get real. Who'se keys (numbers) are they supposed to use then to identify and verify their authorised software? Microsofts? What is your view on the use of the MD5 Checksum algorithm? is that wrong too? is circumventing that fine as well?

And yes, GUIDs can be generated from any point using a corporate IP address. The governing body no longer would need to "issue" them. Any issued GUID would have to be checked for uniqueness which will require some form of body despite the frankly huge numbers of permutations that could be generated. someone will need to issue and conrol the identifier protion




There is a ton of assumption in all of this:

You're expecting the government court to uphold a system by a corporation that could have been fabricated at any time between the court case and the incident.

The code would not have to be passed amongst companies, but if two keys happen to be the same, two companies can accuse the other of copying their key.

Aso GeoHot did not circumvent ANY code. For gods sake, he used the door put there legitimately by Sony.

 

I have had enough of this stupid, ludicrous analogy. I made an analogy in an "only if" situation and you're trying to argue your way through that. the situation is too vague and you're trying to defend it as much as you can. Unless you actually bring up a decent reason, I refuse to play this little game anymore.



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5301314

The number about is copyrighted. Please, don't use without my permission or $99 fee.



fordy said:
Spankey said:




There is a ton of assumption in all of this:

You're expecting the government court to uphold a system by a corporation that could have been fabricated at any time between the court case and the incident. Staw clutching at it's finest. we'll find out soon enough.

The code would not have to be passed amongst companies, but if two keys happen to be the same, two companies can accuse the other of copying their key. You really don't get it, do you?

Aso GeoHot did not circumvent ANY code. For gods sake, he used the door put there legitimately by Sony. He circumvented the security, software verification and authentication measures. This is why homebrew can now pass itself off an Sony's and run on cracked PS3's. there is no denying this. Why are you so blindly stubborn?

I have had enough of this stupid, ludicrous analogy. I made an analogy in an "only if" situation and you're trying to argue your way through that. the situation is too vague and you're trying to defend it as much as you can. Unless you actually bring up a decent reason, I refuse to play this little game anymore. I've stated my position. Toodles.





Proud Sony Rear Admiral

Galaki said:

5301314

The number about is copyrighted. Please, don't use without my permission or $99 fee.


lol



Proud Sony Rear Admiral

Spankey said:
fordy said:
Spankey said:
 




There is a ton of assumption in all of this:

You're expecting the government court to uphold a system by a corporation that could have been fabricated at any time between the court case and the incident. Staw clutching at it's finest. we'll find out soon enough.

The code would not have to be passed amongst companies, but if two keys happen to be the same, two companies can accuse the other of copying their key. You really don't get it, do you?

Aso GeoHot did not circumvent ANY code. For gods sake, he used the door put there legitimately by Sony. He circumvented the security, software verification and authentication measures. This is why homebrew can now pass itself off an Sony's and run on cracked PS3's. there is no denying this. Why are you so blindly stubborn?

I have had enough of this stupid, ludicrous analogy. I made an analogy in an "only if" situation and you're trying to argue your way through that. the situation is too vague and you're trying to defend it as much as you can. Unless you actually bring up a decent reason, I refuse to play this little game anymore. I've stated my position. Toodles.




You've been clutching at straws the moment that you found out that corporate generated security keys do not follow the same rules and legislation as ISBNs and UPCs.

It's easy to say "you don't get it" when you spout nothing but illogical nonsense and defend a position that not even Sony would bother bringing up in court.

For your information, the door is open to anyone, but it wont help you unless you have a signed data file. He played by the rules that Sony themselves programmed into the PS3. He did NOT circumvent security. Circumvention of security involves finding or creating holes that should not be there. This was Sony's port for publishing content.

You honestly don't get digital legislation, do you?



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darthdevidem01 said:

Jeez this whole Geohotz thing has been SO FUNNY! Thank you for making the start of 2011 so memorable!

It is fun, I'll tell you that. Reminds me of my early days posting at CBR ranting about meaningless outcomes of comic stories. The conversations and arguement I made to Joss Whedon's X-men was great. Everyone love it but me, my arguements to me were flawless but people just won't listen and wondered why I hated it (slow release, bad art, predictable not thought out stories).

We are all stubborn enough to never change our minds about anything once our mind has been made up and the more we argue for that case the stronger our view of it is.



Hmm, pie.

buglebum said:
naruball said:
Khuutra said:
geddesmond2 said:


Yeah I noticed a few of the pro Xbox crowd SAID they donated some money(personally I think most of them are full of shit) but I just wonder if there beloved 360 or Wii's security was compromised like the PS3s would they be so supportive.

Personally I don't care what hackers do with the PS3 just as long as my legitimate experiance isn't ruined but thats not been the case and recent reports of how hackers can steal your information or ban anyone they like backs up the problems I'm having with this whole debate right now.

You have no idea how popular the Wii homebrew scene is, do you

Even when it has nothing to do with piracy

Correct me if I'm wrong (cuz I really don't know for sure), but do Wii hackers affect other people's online experince? Can they delete your saves or mess with you when you play online? I have a wii but I only play games offline. Also many  Wii games sell really well despite piracy since many (not most) Wii owner are quite young and do not know how to hack their consoles. I've seen a lot of shovelware or mediocre games sell a lot on wii (not as much as the good wii games), but not on 360. For example Dante's inferno, a mediocre game according to most reviewers, did not sell well at all but was the most pirated 360 game in 2010. So I guess the Wii homebrew does not affect gamers/developers the same way the 360/ps3 does.


Something like 3-4 million people have the "homebrew channel" on their wii according to the developers. Who I might add are extremly upstanding completely against piracy people.

 

I own a PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii...I'm completely pro Xbox 360, I can't stand my PS3 hardly gets used other than for the amazing exclusives that are Uncharted 2 and MGS4. Other than that it's a paper weight, I fully support modding of all hardware including consoles if at all possible.

 

The benefit of being able to play all my games off the hard drive is a great idea to me.

 

It's a shame that dick heads were cheating on PSN, but I believe that has been fixed, or will be fixed very soon so really don't see the problem. Even if it couldn't be fixed, civil rights come first over any corporate bullshit in my eyes, no matter the cost and implications.

Tough luck, would say exactly the same about Xbox 360. The difference with that is that to modifiy an Xbox 360 so it can run unsigned code is only possible on consoles around 2 years old and that haven't been updated to a dash since that time.

The hack that just allows pirate games to run can be done on ANY Xbox 360, I don't have a problem with that either.

Also, I don't remember seeing a tirade of angry little boys moaning when the first Xbox 360 DVD-ROM hack came out, or when the full jtag hack (that allowed cheating online) came out...

It's just another reason why I really dislike the PS3 in general, the whole userbase seems incredibly uninformed and brainwashed by the Sony suits. Just don't like narrow minded people like that. Yep, it's a bit sad that people influence my liking if a console in that way but the blind fanboyism on the PS3 is so bad it's very hard to not be totally turned off by it if you value forward thinking and individualism.

Ok then please forgive my ignorance once again, but how does anyone know how many people have the homebrew channel on their wii?

And this is based solely on my personal experience, but all my friends who have a 360 have hacked their console and none of the ones who have a wii have homebrew channel.

I didn't say that the only people who have a wii are children, mind you I have a wii too, but I think anyone would admit that the Wii is more family orientated/ family friendly. I know so many families who bought a Wii just for Wii fit and they have no idea what homebrew is.

I'm sorry you feel this way about Ps3 fans, but I'm pretty sure that you will find annoying fans of all 3 consoles especially in other forum that are not moderated.



fordy said:
Spankey said:




You've been clutching at straws the moment that you found out that corporate generated security keys do not follow the same rules and legislation as ISBNs and UPCs.

It's easy to say "you don't get it" when you spout nothing but illogical nonsense and defend a position that not even Sony would bother bringing up in court.

For your information, the door is open to anyone, but it wont help you unless you have a signed data file. He played by the rules that Sony themselves programmed into the PS3. He did NOT circumvent security. Circumvention of security involves finding or creating holes that should not be there. This was Sony's port for publishing content.

You honestly don't get digital legislation, do you?

oh my, hot and flustered are we?

consider the case of voucher codes.

Just because it's a string of numbers, that doesn't mean that after you have found out how they generated them then told all and sundry on the internet how to do it that it makes it ok for you, your mates and the internet to enter and claim stacks of $100 codes, does it?

The numbers are useless without a purpose. the purpose is to protect interests. letting others know how to get the numbers should be wrong.

I don't understand how you don't see this, or are you just stubborn?



Proud Sony Rear Admiral

Spankey said:
fordy said:
Spankey said:
 




You've been clutching at straws the moment that you found out that corporate generated security keys do not follow the same rules and legislation as ISBNs and UPCs.

It's easy to say "you don't get it" when you spout nothing but illogical nonsense and defend a position that not even Sony would bother bringing up in court.

For your information, the door is open to anyone, but it wont help you unless you have a signed data file. He played by the rules that Sony themselves programmed into the PS3. He did NOT circumvent security. Circumvention of security involves finding or creating holes that should not be there. This was Sony's port for publishing content.

You honestly don't get digital legislation, do you?

oh my, hot and flustered are we?

consider the case of voucher codes.

Just because it's a string of numbers, that doesn't mean that after you have found out how they generated them then told all and sundry on the internet how to do it that it makes it ok for you, your mates and the internet to enter and claim stacks of $100 codes, does it?

The numbers are useless without a purpose. the purpose is to protect interests. letting others know how to get the numbers should be wrong.

I don't understand how you don't see this, or are you just stubborn?


Actually vouchers is a good example that keeping the number protected is purely for corporate interest only. And yes, people quoted voucher numbers everywhere. I used a voucher number to peorder my 3DS because another site quoted it to everybody.

This is why the companies regulate this, not the government. Sometimes the code can only be entered a certain amount of times before it's expired. Any company that doesn't only has itself to blame.

Now think about this. If this whole numbering crap would indeed be protected by law, why the hell would Sony go to such lengths to protect it? In that definition, they would be waving the number around exclaiming, "Just try it. I dare you!"



Weapons can be used to commit crimes and weapons manufacturers perfectly know it and everybody knows it.

So:

  1. Weapons should be banned
  2. Weapons manufacturers should be condemned as accomplices of countless crimes


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