UPCs and ISBNs are examples of numbers (or integers) which have been generated, distributed, and are protected against misuse, are they not? you claimed that no number could be afforded protection, obviously you were mistaken.

any one can still use that string of numbers for anything they want. they are not copyrighted. But the controlling body of UPC and ISBN would not recognize them if they do not want to. Nothing to do with copyright.

this article talks about trying to copyright a number, and also of another similar case involving hd dvd.

http://ipnotions.com/2007/05/you-can-copyright-number-but-not-as.html

"Update: Lots of good coverage out there. Only one link to me, but them's the wages of sin. Or in this case the wages of toiling in obscurity. In any event, I found particularly heartening the coverage at EFF Deep Links, that makes clear that it is, in fact, an anti-circumvention claim, and not a copyright one."

I suggest people read it as it is somewhat similar to this case at hand, and sony isn't on the bad end of this one hd dvd was.

What the hell are you talking about? Just because a book has ISBN 12345, that doesnt mean I cannot use the number 12345 in any other application. That is a completely stupid and retarded stance!

you are not reading what i'm writing.

you are not ISBN. You cannot claim you're ISBN and in a position to distribute ISBN numbers unless you are. Anything you distribute as having come from ISBN when it has not is wrong.

hopefully that's clear enough.

Yes, but I am allowed to cite an ISBN, just like any bookstore does, and just like GeoHot did to sign files.

He did not MAKE a key. He cited one. It's NOT illegal to cite an ISBN!

but you see, he cited one which can be attached to homebrew apps which are not developed, suported or distributed by Sony.

Putting a DKNY badge on a wallet does not make it automatically a wallet made by DKNY if you see what I'm getting at.

Except the only boundaries are whether the PS3 accepts it or not. Code signing is a simple mathematical equation if you CITE the number. Besdes your argument is flawed because Sony use the same key for everything, whereas ISBNs and UPCs require one code per product.

And for the record, there is talk about replacing the ISBNs with GUIDs, effectively dissolving the foundation to no more than just a checker for doubleups, so your argument doesn't hold up there, either.

you still don't get my point.

so what if Sony uses the same key to sign every piece of software they autherise?

The point is that GeoHot is not Sony and should have no right to sign something as coming from Sony when he is not Sony. he's flogging fake Sony goods to the PS3 and has told others how to do the same.

GUID is just another number generated and distributed by a protected system. Just like ISBN. There is or will be a controlling body who will assign the numbers. The same will hold true, you won't be allowed to generate a number privately and then claim it came from them, so i don't see how that's too different at all.

You have to realize that for houses the view is something that has a monetary value, so anything that you can do that can affect the view people have from their houses is frowned upon and regulated by Home owners associations...

Same way that if you don't mow your lawn for a while or let it die you will be fined...

Some suburbs have rules against having prominent satelite dishes on houses...

Heck do you realize that to make any significant modification to your house you need  a permit, even if it's something that is not visible from the street side...

Try to buy a car and remove the safety belts and see how it goes. It's your car and you can do whatever you want with it right ? Wrong...And removing those belts will not endanger anyone else except you...

It's illegal in Europe to put heating gazoline into diesel car. And it's not because it doesn't work as well, They are the same, heating gaz has just a colorant to make it look different. The reason ? Because one is less taxed than the others so the government doesn't want to loose taxes....

It's not so different with Sony, they don't want you to run apps not coming from them because they don't perceive taxes on those. Seeing how they sold most of their PS3 at a loss, I can understand why.

So a government can do it but not a corporation ?

Okay, let's assume your vague assumption has any chance of standing in court. In that case:

1. there would have to be a governing body who monitors security keys by corporations. Not only is it not in the corporations interest to be giving them out, it's not the government's interest to be providing backup for stolen keys from corporations. No. it's how Sony id's something that theirs and or comes from them or their stable in their own internal system (like a product number). I.E Sony is the governing body here.

2. Sony would have had to have registered their key with that body. see 1

3. No two companies would be allowed to have the same key. Irrelevant. it is unlikely that one legit company would try pass itself or it's software as anothers. remember GeoHots method allows PS3's to run fake software (or homebrew etc.) as if it came from Sony.

4. The code signing system would only be allowed to accept numbers registered with this governing body. This is what Geohot has circumvented in the PS3 hack.

The similarity is way too vague for any enforcement, and the idea of enforcement requires ludicrous rues to be put in place.

Sony cannot just declare by themselves "this is our number, and anything published with it shall be ours" to thin air and expect it to hold up in court. Get real. Who'se keys (numbers) are they supposed to use then to identify and verify their authorised software? Microsofts? What is your view on the use of the MD5 Checksum algorithm? is that wrong too? is circumventing that fine as well?

And yes, GUIDs can be generated from any point using a corporate IP address. The governing body no longer would need to "issue" them. Any issued GUID would have to be checked for uniqueness which will require some form of body despite the frankly huge numbers of permutations that could be generated. someone will need to issue and conrol the identifier protion