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Forums - Sales Discussion - 360 to out future-proof the ps3?

 

360 to out future-proof the ps3?

True 121 31.19%
 
False 267 68.81%
 
Total:388
Demonslayersoultaker said:

Hell no, 360 has a dvd drive even if it's selling well now in a few months when kinect dies down it will drop in sales and ps3 isn't down much in sales yoy at all, I really don't see how you can even think that and 360 still has the 200 model so it's not outselling ps3 at a higher price range and there are plenty of bundles and deals on 360 too not to mention everything you said is limited to the USA not even all of NA worldwide is a totally different story 

Wow! you are all over bashing the living crude out of anything 360 or Kinect. How much does sony pay you? or do they? Seems if not, you need to call up and ask for you money.   NO THERE IS NOT PLENTY OF OF BUNDLES GOING AROUND. THERE ARE SHORTAGES IF YOU HAVE NOT NOTICED.

If anything I think it's safe to say that Kinect is going to keep on truckin. 



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thismeintiel said:

I still wonder in amazement at people who feel digital distribution will become the standard within a decade or 2.  We have had the internet and downloadable mp3s for over a decade, yet CDs are still produced to this day and they came out in the 80's.  If anything DD and Blu-ray will co-exist.  Bluray will be used by most for buying movies and will most likely be used in one form or another in gaming consoles nex gen.  And DD will be mostly used for rentals and smaller Live/PSN games, like it is today.  If you look at the sales of DVD plus Blu-ray vs. DD, you'll see that the majority of people prefer physical formats.  Not the oppisite, as you suggested.

Decade or 2... really? Dvd's beat vhs in less time than Blu-ray is still struggling with DVD. CD sales are also very much down and ITunes charts are now quite common even though not everyone uses Itunes. Right now the majority is physical yes, but to say even in 2 decades it wont take over? Come on man thats rubbish.

The cold hard fact is DD doesn't match the quality of video and sound of a Blu-ray for movies.  It may say 720p or 1080p, but it is still more compressed than the info found on a Blu-ray.  Granted it is getting better, but it still leaves the another thing stopping DD from completely taking over, internet speeds.  There is over 40 % of people in the US who do not have a form of high speed internet in their homes.  They are not going to want to download HD movies for hours, maybe even days.  And if nearly half of US is lacking high speed internet, then the numbers have to be much smaller in the smaller countries around the world.  Of course, you will always have people, like me, who prefer owning a physical copy of their game.  No worrying about your HDD crashing and/or the compnay providing said content going out of business when you wish to redownload your movies/games.

HAHAHH what.. digital doesnt match Blu-ray... wtf... dude seriously I am concerned Blu-rays are running a digital file, thus Blu-ray will never outdo digital, there are poorer digital yes, but there is also better. You can find shocking blu-rays as well, ever heard of ghostbusters.

Its also easier to carry much more movies in a smaller area. Hence Digital distribution becoming more and more common.

And Blu-ray is definitely a better tech than DVDs.  All Blu-rays are covered in a scratch resistant coating for added protection.  A Blu-ray also reads more data per sec than a DVD (36 Mbits/s vs. 10.5 Mbits/s).  This means the disc can spin at a lower speed, but read more info quickly, resulting in lower heat output and energy usage.  Also, a DVD is a variable speed format, so it actually reads at different speeds throughout the disc and its max speed is mostly never realized.  Blu-ray, on the other hand, reads at a constant speed throughout the entire disc.  Here's a graph to compare the speed improvements. 

Not saying Blu-rays as a whole are better than the 360, this topic is out-future proof and as far of dvds vs blu-ray in xbox vs ps3, xbox wins. end of. Is Blu-ray quicker? Yes, is PS3's bluray quicker? No.

As you can see, if a console has a 3x drive, it would hold its own against a 12x DVD player.  My guess it that the PS4 will have a 4x,6x, or even 8x Blu-ray drive.  This will allow games to have large amounts of content, while also helping eliminate load times.  With the next gen consoles pumping put out even more graphical and audio content in each game, this space and speed is going to be required.  You would be quite foolish to believe anyone is going to stick with DVD next gen.  Not only would they look outdated, but no one will put up with a mandatory 2-3 DVDs required for each game.  And that would be just as foolish as going DD only.  No one will want to keep swapping out HDD's every few games they play.  And then what happens if your HDD crashes and that content is no longer available online?  Gone forever.

We are not talking about the PS4 we are talking about the PS3 thus faster blu-rays dont come into it. Not saying DVD I am saying another format though, they wont necessarily jump the ship to blu-ray. What happens if your blu-ray breaks and you can no longer purchase the blu-ray... same same... don't think you can use some of your logic for one but not for the other. Oh and "Gone forever"

Also, where in the world did you get the idea MS makes money off of Blu-ray?  If that was the case, don't you think they would have supported by now, and definitely instead of HD-DVD?

They own codecs, so they get licenses, do research, I have stated that MS owns the codecs simply by going to wikipedia, If you want the links i can quickly bing them again.





 

Bet with Conegamer and Doobie_wop 

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bannedagain said:
Demonslayersoultaker said:

Hell no, 360 has a dvd drive even if it's selling well now in a few months when kinect dies down it will drop in sales and ps3 isn't down much in sales yoy at all, I really don't see how you can even think that and 360 still has the 200 model so it's not outselling ps3 at a higher price range and there are plenty of bundles and deals on 360 too not to mention everything you said is limited to the USA not even all of NA worldwide is a totally different story 

Wow! you are all over bashing the living crude out of anything 360 or Kinect. How much does sony pay you? or do they? Seems if not, you need to call up and ask for you money.   NO THERE IS NOT PLENTY OF OF BUNDLES GOING AROUND. THERE ARE SHORTAGES IF YOU HAVE NOT NOTICED.

If anything I think it's safe to say that Kinect is going to keep on truckin. 

You realize it's dropping in sales every week, and dropped in sales after the holiday by a massive amount and is still going down, and at the rate it's going it's not going to last until the next holiday and the games that are out look better then the games that are coming out and by bundles I meant offers not physical consoles and the shortages are exaggurated 



Demonslayersoultaker said:
AussieGecko said:

Something for every claim you've made, MS making money off 360, HD-dvd being better then blu ray, 360 needing

I never stated they made money off 360 but I can get you quotes for that if you want. If you are talking about PS3, if a company owns codecs they own licenses, these licenses have to get paid for. They are called licensing fees.

I don't remember, just some an old game that did really bad, arcade version makes most devs not take the risk, if you ask on this site I'm sure you'll get an anser 

Name the game or dont state it.

And that makes them better how, also have to take in acount # of enemies on screen at same time when considering AI and was talking about combat machanics for some of them 

The majority of people disagree with your statement.

Wrong again, the best programmer in the world could make a better AI with more space then less

Explain half-lifes AI then, a lot of games these days arent even there yet. Starcraft 1, same thing, the AI is quite good, very low space. The best programmer in the world can certainly do it in lower space.

 









 

Bet with Conegamer and Doobie_wop 

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thismeintiel said:
welshbloke said:
AussieGecko said:

not better technology, as far as I know HD DVD was in fact that, blu-ray is more space

I would not maybe suggest HD DVD was better although it certainly had advantages over Blu Ray BUT it was the better option for the consumer just not at the time for the DRM dreaming publishers who saw better strength in Blu Ray. It also helped that Sony had a big foot in this area. 

For me the worst thing Sony did this generation is kill off HD DVD a format that had real potential to hit the market early and with double sided discs the opportunity to accommodate the DVD market.

Sony didn't kill off HD-DVD.  Consumers made the choice and HD-DVD lost.  As far as the DVD market goes, Blu-ray does accomodate them.  All the players are B/C, you know.  And many movie studios are including Blu-ray and DVD versions in the same case, with little to no extra cost.

This is like the Sega guys who despise them for "killing" the Dreamcast.  If the Dreamcast was the best option, people would have bought into it more.  However, consumer choice, as well as Sega's poor management decisions, are what killed the Dreamcast (and Sega's turn in the console biz).  You can't go around blaming the competition for your prefered format/console's demise.

Maybe I was not present then because as a consumer I certainly had no choice at the time the biggest selling HD players were for HD DVD, Sony had the Blu Ray installed in a console this was not a consumer decision and to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

Also my point about HD DVD and DVD was they were both on one disc which of course meant you had less shelf space and ultimately less issues about is it a DVD or a HD DVD. The problem with your scenario is I cannot put your Blu Ray into my DVD player, I could put a dual format HD DVD disc into it though.



W.L.B.B. Member, Portsmouth Branch.

(Welsh(Folk) Living Beyond Borders)

Winner of the 2010 VGC Holiday sales prediction thread with an Average 1.6% accuracy rating. I am indeed awesome.

Kinect as seen by PS3 owners ...if you can pick at it   ...post it ... Did I mention the 360 was black and Shinny? Keeping Sigs obscure since 2007, Passed by the Sig police 5July10.
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AussieGecko said:
Demonslayersoultaker said:
AussieGecko said:

Something for every claim you've made, MS making money off 360, HD-dvd being better then blu ray, 360 needing

 

I never stated they made money off 360 but I can get you quotes for that if you want. If you are talking about PS3, if a company owns codecs they own licenses, these licenses have to get paid for. They are called licensing fees.

 

I don't remember, just some an old game that did really bad, arcade version makes most devs not take the risk, if you ask on this site I'm sure you'll get an anser 

 

Name the game or dont state it.

 

And that makes them better how, also have to take in acount # of enemies on screen at same time when considering AI and was talking about combat machanics for some of them 

 

The majority of people disagree with your statement.

 

Wrong again, the best programmer in the world could make a better AI with more space then less

 

Explain half-lifes AI then, a lot of games these days arent even there yet. Starcraft 1, same thing, the AI is quite good, very low space. The best programmer in the world can certainly do it in lower space.

 

 

 

 



 



 



 

Here aussie does this help any.



thismeintiel said:

I still wonder in amazement at people who feel digital distribution will become the standard within a decade or 2.  

I must remember this then when I next watch a 1080P movie streamed through my Xbox obviously it is not possible because you had graphs and lots of words to say so. Also Onlive must just be smoke and mirrors as well.

I suppose you are right though it is already happening whoever thought it would take a decade bloody mad men and crazy folk obviously.



W.L.B.B. Member, Portsmouth Branch.

(Welsh(Folk) Living Beyond Borders)

Winner of the 2010 VGC Holiday sales prediction thread with an Average 1.6% accuracy rating. I am indeed awesome.

Kinect as seen by PS3 owners ...if you can pick at it   ...post it ... Did I mention the 360 was black and Shinny? Keeping Sigs obscure since 2007, Passed by the Sig police 5July10.
Demonslayersoultaker said:
Demonslayersoultaker said:

Nope but blu ray is better for both 

A DD beats that.

You can fit a whole blu-ray movie onto a dvd At lower quality,not at the same quality so no thats not the case, hd movies can be only 2gb 4gb>2gb

That's a bad port, ps3 exclusives look better then 360 ones, whats your explination for that? And again without arcade they would have an install on 360

my EXPLANATION for that is good on them, the processor on the PS3 is better thus making games look better. WOW what a revelation, nothing to do with disc space. That is a bad port you said.. there are plenty out there.

Either way it's insignificant and why don't you linke me, you always ask me for proof you haven't done any research

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VC-1 <- VC-1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2 <- Mpeg-2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4 <- MPEG-4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc <- look at encoding

Square actually never made that excuse they kept claiming they were equal, and then there was the devs saying they cut like 8 gigs for the 360 version (both got cut because of it) so yeah, blu ray > dvd

No, square also never said the space was the reason it was cut, they said they cut the movie quality and only the movie quality because of the space. They stated that the reason the other parts were cut because they were unneeded and appearance of XIII-2 would explain why

No they don't 360 games have just as much compression as pc games, moreso then some since MS holds patents, the arcade model is the only reason 360 doesn't have games with mandatory installs 

You cant play PC games directly off the disc, you have to install them first which then becomes bigger than a dvd. Find me a link that states the arcade is the reason there are no mandatory installs for the 360.





 

Bet with Conegamer and Doobie_wop 

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bannedagain said:

Here aussie does this help any.


hahaha cheers mate :D



 

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AussieGecko said:

Decade or 2... really? Dvd's beat vhs in less time than Blu-ray is still struggling with DVD. CD sales are also very much down and ITunes charts are now quite common even though not everyone uses Itunes. Right now the majority is physical yes, but to say even in 2 decades it wont take over? Come on man thats rubbish.

HAHAHH what.. digital doesnt match Blu-ray... wtf... dude seriously I am concerned Blu-rays are running a digital file, thus Blu-ray will never outdo digital, there are poorer digital yes, but there is also better. You can find shocking blu-rays as well, ever heard of ghostbusters.

Its also easier to carry much more movies in a smaller area. Hence Digital distribution becoming more and more common.

Not saying Blu-rays as a whole are better than the 360, this topic is out-future proof and as far of dvds vs blu-ray in xbox vs ps3, xbox wins. end of. Is Blu-ray quicker? Yes, is PS3's bluray quicker? No.

We are not talking about the PS4 we are talking about the PS3 thus faster blu-rays dont come into it. Not saying DVD I am saying another format though, they wont necessarily jump the ship to blu-ray. What happens if your blu-ray breaks and you can no longer purchase the blu-ray... same same... don't think you can use some of your logic for one but not for the other. Oh and "Gone forever"

They own codecs, so they get licenses, do research, I have stated that MS owns the codecs simply by going to wikipedia, If you want the links i can quickly bing them again.



You say Blu-ray is struggling to beat DVD, but you choose not to use common sense as to see why that is.  Blu-ray players shipped from the beggining completely backwards compatible with DVD.  DVD were still only $20 new, while Blu-ray were ~$40-50, some higher.  Of course, many forget DVD was once this high, too.  However, there were reports that the Blu-ray PLAYER adoption rate was higher than DVD player adoption rate for the same period of time in its life.  I think many more have Blu-ray players than some would like to think.  It's just many choose to buy the cheaper DVD, especially if the movie wouldn't really show off HD.  Of course, if you go into Wal-mart just as much as I do, you would notice a trend happening over the last year or so.  More of the DVD shelves have been taken out to make room for Blu-ray.  Of course, the recent lowering of costs to make Blu-rays have already resulted in the prices for new ones to be the same as new DVDs, so the adoption rate is going to grow.

As for CD sales, they were down 13 % in 2010 over 2009, but digital sales only rose 1%.  So not exactly a 1 to 1 transition.  Given the small size and ease of downloading mp3's, though, I do imagine in around 2 decades the sales of CD's and digital will maybe even out.  But, both will still co-exist.

Nex gen, there may not be much choice then to go with Blu-ray.  I know the next Xbox will need a high storage media, but they won't be able to use HD-DVDs, as no factory is making them anymore or set up to.  So will MS spend money developing their own disc-based media, as well as getting factories set up to mass produce them, knowing full well they won't be able to carry their format into movie sales.  Or do they just bite the bullet and pay Sony (and the BDA) a fee to be able to use Blu-ray?  Also, I take care of my discs, so there is little to no chance of them breaking.  And even if it did, there is always Ebay.    Same can't be said if the HDD crashes and a game is no longer available for download.

MS did develop 1 of the 3 codecs that is used for Blu-ray video, however they aren't being paid for its use.  If you read the same Wikipedia in its article for VC-1, you will find this gem.  "Due to its origins in Microsoft's WMV9 codec, the most popular implementations of VC-1 encoders have so far been done by Microsoft, though third-party implementations exist as well. Sonic Cinevision PSE, a professional VC-1 encoding tool used predominantly in HD DVD and Blu-ray encoding, is a commercial version of Microsoft's PEP (Parallel Encoder) encoding tool and VC-1 Analyzer tool. Microsoft owns the code development whereas Sonic Solutions owns the sales and distribution."  In other words, Sonic may have paid MS a fee to use this codec in their encoding tool, but MS sees no money from Blu-ray sales.