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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy: Officialy burnt out?

 

Final Fantasy: Officialy burnt out?

Yes 130 47.62%
 
No 94 34.43%
 
GIVE DEM A CHANCE! 40 14.65%
 
Not an FPS so I don't care :-) 9 3.30%
 
Total:273
yum123 said:
Conegamer said:
yum123 said:
dunno001 said:

Is FF13 burnt out? Well, I guess it depends on what's fueling the flame. I can't deny at least some creative flame is left- they keep trying new things, even if I can't stand most of them. Popularity and sales, well... as long as enough people keep buying it, they'll keep fueling it. But quality? That flame's been dead for a while. I'll take a look at why.

The series was born in late 1987, so the series is just over 23 years old. Yet, how many games are there in the entire FF series, including spinoffs? At last count, I got 51, or a bit over 2 per year on average. (I'll post the list at the end.) The first 9 years saw a rate of less than 1 per year, including spinoffs. The 10th year, most of 1997, saw 3 games in that year alone, acceptable, given that both 1996 and 1998 were void. (1998 is also the last year to not have a game without the words 'Final Fantasy' in one way or another in the title.) Adding in these few years brought the average to 1 after half its current life. The second half of its life, then, had to (and did) average 3 games per year to bring the average to what it is now. (2008 and 2009 tie for king, at 6 games each year.) And frankly, if you have to churn out that many games each year, there's going to be a quality hit. This shows- the games aren't about gameplay anymore, they're about making interactive movies, especially the mainline. And to finance this, they continue to milk the name, knowing that it doesn't have to be good anymore; people keep buying it just for the title.

Meanwhile, most of the people who gave a lot of the earlier games their gameplay and charm are gone from Square. They now have the same few people coming up with ideas, and the similarities in the thought process show. The appearance of a carbon copy story in a new world is showing. They're not given a break, a chance to come up with genuinely new ideas. Instead, the creativity I mentioned in the beginning comes from different implementations of the same old ideas, which is where the change is perceived. But as long as the old idea continues to sell, why should they come up with a new one? It'll be more work for little to no extra benefit. And thus, the quality has stagnated, and died. I think what Square forgot, is that, ultimately, these are games. Sure, a game can tell a story, but it's not a good game unless you can deviate from things some. If I have to just run in a straight line to keep going on your story, then just make a movie and be done with it. Oh, wait... it's been tried... with less dependable results. So we'll just pass off our new movie as a new game- we'll even be able to sell it for more than a movie, to boot!

Now I know I'm going to get accused of seeing this through nostalgia-tinted glasses. But I've replayed many of the older games rather recently, and yes, I would rather play through FF1 than FF7 (or frankly, any post-7 FF) again, despite that my last play of FF1 was after my last play of FF7. And some later ones, like FF10, I've tried playing. Multiple times, even. But they bore me. They're too easy, there's nowhere to explore, and you really don't have the character freedom anymore. I love the sphere grid idea in 10, but if the game itself is a chore, it fails. The only game I've been able to get into and enjoy post-6 is 9, though it also fell to the problem of being too easy. (12 came close, but it had 2 glaring flaws that drove me batty: the license grid and AI programming limitations.) And there are other series that I find have evoloved nicely: I like both styles of the Persona games, Tales has been fairly dependable in what to expect, and even another S-E series, Dragon Quest, has had its last release be the best game in the series to date. But FF has devolved, to the point where yes, on this day, I would play an older one to a newer one. I don't see that changing, nor will it, even if somehow things do turn around, because the light is out, and I've no interest in trying to respark it.

List of Final Fantasy games by Japanese release date
1987 Final Fantasy 1
1988 Final Fantasy 2
1990 Final Fantasy 3
1991 Final Fantasy 4
  Seiken Densetsu: Final Fantasy Gaiden (Final Fantasy Adventure/Mystic Quest)
1992 Final Fantasy 5
  Final Fantasy USA: Mystic Quest (Mystic Quest Legend)
1994 Final Fantasy 6
1997 Final Fantasy 7
  Final Fantasy Tactics
  Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon
1999 Final Fantasy 8
  Chocobo's Dungeon 2
  Chocobo Racing
  Chocobo Collection
2000 Final Fantasy 9
  Chocobo on the Job
2001 Final Fantasy 10
2002 Final Fantasy 11
  Chocobo Land
  Final Fantasy Unlimited with U (Yes, based on the anime)
2003 Final Fantasy 10-2
  Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
  Choco-Mate
  Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
  Final Fantasy Unlimited PC Adventure
2004 Before Crisis: Final Fantasy 7
2005 Final Fantasy 7 Snowboarding
2006 Final Fantasy 12
  Final Fantasy 7: Dirge of Cerberus
  Chocobo de Mobile
  Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales
2007 Final Fantasy 12: Revenant Wings
  Final Fantasy 7: Crisis Core
  Final Fantasy Tactics A2
  Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon
  Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates
2008 Final Fantasy 4: The After Years
  Chocobo and the Magic Picture Book
  Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King
  Final Fantasy Crystal Guardians
  Final Fantasy Crystal Defenders
  Final Fantasy Dissidia
2009 Final Fantasy 13
  Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time
  Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a Darklord
  Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers
  Final Fantasy Crystal Defenders: Vanguard Storm (iPhone got a few of these...)
  Final Fantasy: 4 Heroes of Light
2010 Final Fantasy 14
  Final Fantasy: Hikari to Yami no Senshi
2011 Final Fantasy 13-2
  Final Fantasy Type-0
  Final Fantasy Dissidia Duodecim 012
TBA Final Fantasy Versus 13
  Code name Fortress (FF12 related, possibly dead?)


I completely disagree with this post The reason they churn so many out is because people want them i think it would suck if there was only 1  year the more ff the better and the ideas are not getting stale look at ff 13 there all completely different they are realeasing heaps and keeping the series very fresh all releases are completely different there is no stagnation. so i dont know what your talking about

Perhaps...

But there's a lot of terrible games there

yea ill admit I dont play the random spin offs like tactics series and crystal chronicles never have think they look like crap but there a whole different series just a name in tems of the mainstream series they are all very fresh and innovative

True. So really, there's no reason to release so many games in short space of time!



 

Here lies the dearly departed Nintendomination Thread.

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yum123 said:

I completely disagree with this post The reason they churn so many out is because people want them i think it would suck if there was only 1  year the more ff the better and the ideas are not getting stale look at ff 13 there all completely different they are realeasing heaps and keeping the series very fresh all releases are completely different there is no stagnation. so i dont know what your talking about

Then why is it that, in general, sales on FF games in Japan have been declining? FF13 is the worst-selling mainline FF since FF5. Most of the spinoffs do poorly, because people learned from the beginning that the spinoffs were clearly that- and probably not worth their time. Do I think people would like more FF games as compared to the mid-90s? Sure, but they also want the quality and refinement. And that's where the release schedule comes into play.

I'll start by looking at FF7. It's not a secret that I don't care for 7; it's where I think Square sold out to the mainstream. But I can't fault them on the business side of things- it did spur more sales worldwide, and it still was refined, from the team having time to actually work on the game. It was here, though, where execs saw these new sales, and got greedy. (Note that the milking started shortly after.) And in this rush to fulfill people's desire for more FF games, they rushed things out the door, just to keep people buying. They made sure to deliver on what the people were buying it for, too: a story with pretty graphics. In this rush, though, is when it became more apparent also that the story was actually the same one, just rewritten and set in a new world. Even the plot twists remain the same! However, it was the pretty graphics that fed the graphics whores, and they thus kept buying it, causing what we have today in why the series hasn't crashed and burnt like it should.

So how many of these games truely are different? Not many, really. The only one post-7 that was truely different and refined was FF12. (As I mentioned prior, I disagree with a few of their decisions, but I can't deny the work that was put into it.) And note what the years prior to this game's release were: very light, especially in comparison to other years of this era. The team was not rushed; they had time. This time let them actually do a different story, a different world style (though I think some of it was still FF11's engine reused), and, most importantly for an RPG, exploration. It was a game, you lived a role, doing what you wanted to, not being shoved down some linear path (10, 13), free to discover things as you see fit. Sure, to advance the plot, you would have to stay on their line, but the mere ability to venture off this line is part of an RPG. Being stuck on this line makes it an interactive movie- the direction I really think Square is trying to go. Besides, if the player can't explore, there's less places that you need to create pretty graphics for, also keeping costs down- at the expense of gameplay.

I already know you're going to disagree with me still. Because yes, the games are all different on the surface. But as someone who's been around since the beginning of the series, I can see behind the curtain, and see that it's all the same thing reskinned. And that's where things have stagnated- behind the skin, at the core of the game. This is what's burnt out.



-dunno001

-On a quest for the truly perfect game; I don't think it exists...

I agree that Square is handling the franchise poorly as of late, but, the franchise is far from being burnt out. However, if Square continues down the path overly long dev- cycles with disappointing results, Final Fantasy may be heading for trouble in the future.



snyperdud said:

I agree that Square is handling the franchise poorly as of late, but, the franchise is far from being burnt out. However, if Square continues down the path overly long dev- cycles with disappointing results, Final Fantasy may be heading for trouble in the future.

If this thread has reached any form of conclusion, it's that I suppose that this year is pivotal for FF then eh?

If they release quality games, all is well. 

If the games are lackluster, they're d00med.

The next 12 months should be interesting...

 

@RolStoppable: THERE IS EVERY NEED!



 

Here lies the dearly departed Nintendomination Thread.

A203D said:
Wagram said:
Carl2291 said:
 

Okay. You're wrong there for a start. It's an RPG. So now that that's out of the way...

You're wrong again there. The game isn't in straight lines, and Lightning (I assume you mean Lightning), isn't a Teenager.

Okay. I bet it does pretty well. Again, Lightning is not a Teen.

A sequel wont necessarily sell as much as an original, I agree that it wont sell as well as FFXIII, but it wont flop like you anticipate it to. FFXIII is popular.

The Last Story proves what? There's nothing to prove. You don't like the game, that's quite evident. If it was as bad as you say it was, it wouldn't have sold 10,000 plus units this week.


In my opinion. You know what is really burnt out? People constantly trolling the series and making threads like these. :/ If you don't like the series, walk away. It isn't difficult.

Well like i said the sales of FF13-2 will determine whether or not FF13 has been well recieved among those 6 mil users. i pesonally dont think it will do well at all. and we will have to wait until its out to establish that.

either way the developers have also said that FF13-2 will be made in response to the "opinions" of FF13. so even if people here cant acknowlege that its has problems the developers cearly have. if its the "trolls" who are burned out, why would the developers change the game design for the sequel??

The Last Story proves that the departure of Sakaguchi has been detrimental to the series, i dont believe FF13 is an RPG based on the words of the developers themselves and because of the design philiosphy they've also used. TLS shows that Sakaguchi is still a brilliant developer who knows what gamers want and that FF is not the same without him.

i really dont know why any FF fan would disagree with this, FF hasnt been the same since he left. or many of the other developers who also left Sqaure after previously working on FF.

yes, many fans have walked away - clear from looking at the decline in sales since FF7 and then FF10. i never said the series was burned out. i'm here to say that the people who made FF13 - production team 1 are awful at what they do. things like Dirge of Cerberus, FF10-2, FNC support this imho.

and i may well walk away if FF15 is not made by production team 2. like many fans already have done, clearly looking at the sales from FF7 and subsequently FF10 to now.

Because every FF is different including the direct sequels FFX-2 was different then FFX so it is no surprise that FFXIII will be Different from FFXIII.  



Japanese Pop Culture Otaku

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FF X-2 was an abomination of a game,a shame  to RPGS and a disgrace to the final fantasy series.



Conegamer said:
snyperdud said:

I agree that Square is handling the franchise poorly as of late, but, the franchise is far from being burnt out. However, if Square continues down the path overly long dev- cycles with disappointing results, Final Fantasy may be heading for trouble in the future.

If this thread has reached any form of conclusion, it's that I suppose that this year is pivotal for FF then eh?

If they release quality games, all is well. 

If the games are lackluster, they're d00med.

The next 12 months should be interesting...

 

@RolStoppable: THERE IS EVERY NEED!

This year will be extremely important. To be honest, I'm very curious to see how Final Fantasy XIII-2 sells. I believe that game's sales may be a good indicator to see just how bad the FF name has been tarnished.



AngelosL said:

FF X-2 was an abomination of a game,a shame  to RPGS and a disgrace to the final fantasy series.

Nice Trolling Fail.

 



Japanese Pop Culture Otaku

hikaruchan said:

Because every FF is different including the direct sequels FFX-2 was different then FFX so it is no surprise that FFXIII will be Different from FFXIII.  

Even if its meant to be different, which is irrelevant at this point. Toriyama's words at the 1st production premier were that 'the team are working to respond to the opinions of FF13'. i think Kitase's also mentioned recently they will also be considering the opinions of the international as well as domestic fans.

whether its meant to be different or not is irrelevent, because the impetus for it being different is an acknowledgement that the thoughts the fans have been considered in during the development of this title.

and we also have evidence of playtesting, which they discussed in their post moderm of FF13 came too late in the games development. so its pretty clear, both from what we've been told and what the developers have said they are fully aware of FF13's mixed reception.



hikaruchan said:
AngelosL said:

FF X-2 was an abomination of a game,a shame  to RPGS and a disgrace to the final fantasy series.

Nice Trolling Fail.

 

how was I trolling exactly?I was referring to the post above mine.You posted just to insult me,which I doubt you would have the guts to do in real life,so I really don't think I'm the troll here. And never talk to me like that again.