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Forums - General Discussion - Can Egyptians do it?

mrstickball on 28 January 2011
ManusJustus said:
mrstickball said:

I pray to God...

Pray in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first...

Full accolades to Egyptians and Tunisians.  They are very brave for what they are doing, I couldn't imagine doing such a drastic measure that could restult in death and torture at any time.

Given that I've prayed for a lot of things and they've happened exactly as I've prayed, I will say the 'pray in one hand'.



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NJ5 on 28 January 2011
ManusJustus said:
mrstickball said:

I pray to God...

Pray in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first...

Full accolades to Egyptians and Tunisians.  They are very brave for what they are doing, I couldn't imagine doing such a drastic measure that could restult in death and torture at any time.


As the saying goes... When people have nothing left to lose, they lose it. Being continously oppressed also makes people braver for sure.



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Xen on 28 January 2011
mrstickball said:

Fully mixed feelings.

On one end, Egypt was a pretty benevolent dictatorship. Honsi Mubarak was certainly imperfect, but given his peers in the region, he looked like a saint: Made peace with Israel, never attacked anyone, never let the terrorists have their way in the region, and is generally (in my view) 'good'.

On the other end...It was still an authoritarian government, which likely was not the will of the people.

I worry what will become of this. I pray to God that if there is a revolution, they get a secular, Turkey-like Democracy that will strengthen ties with the west, and let people live in peace, and be very moderate to liberal for a Muslim-dominated state.

However, it seems that revolutions in the middle east are rarely a good thing :-

Worst yet, they are second or third in terms of US military support and aid. I would hate to see their M1 tanks turn on Israel, Turkey or other sane powers in the region.

That'd be Anwar Saa'dat or whatever you type his name like.

And yeah, I'd hate to see those tanks turn on Israel too - heck, I live there :P... also, Turkey = sane? Mwahaha!



mrstickball on 28 January 2011
Xen said:

That'd be Anwar Saa'dat or whatever you type his name like.

And yeah, I'd hate to see those tanks turn on Israel too - heck, I live there :P... also, Turkey = sane? Mwahaha!

Well, more sane than other arab countries.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

huaxiong90 on 28 January 2011
sad.man.loves.vgc said:

3:00 a.m they cut electricity supply to big areas in Cairo. 10 dead people so far and over 600 people were arrested..

Metro stations stopped yesterday.

Facebook and twitter were blocked/unblocked several times today, Mobinil, vodafone and etisalat ,companys that provides cell phone coverage, was forced to stop their services in several areas.

Aljazzera reporters were arrested and media blockage continues.

Religifags (fuck those) continue to tell people to stay home and how it is HARAM to go against the authority and that Mohammed told them not to.

this picture is from yesterday.. Cairo never looked so beautiful.

That is THE biggest load of garbage I've ever heard.



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Kasz216 on 28 January 2011
mrstickball said:

Fully mixed feelings.

On one end, Egypt was a pretty benevolent dictatorship. Honsi Mubarak was certainly imperfect, but given his peers in the region, he looked like a saint: Made peace with Israel, never attacked anyone, never let the terrorists have their way in the region, and is generally (in my view) 'good'.

On the other end...It was still an authoritarian government, which likely was not the will of the people.

I worry what will become of this. I pray to God that if there is a revolution, they get a secular, Turkey-like Democracy that will strengthen ties with the west, and let people live in peace, and be very moderate to liberal for a Muslim-dominated state.

However, it seems that revolutions in the middle east are rarely a good thing :-

Worst yet, they are second or third in terms of US military support and aid. I would hate to see their M1 tanks turn on Israel, Turkey or other sane powers in the region.

Well revolutions EVERYWHERE are rarely a good thing.

I mean, the USA only got lucky that George Washington thought ruling as a dictatorship would be more of a pain then anything.

9 times out of 10 anywhere in the world, when their is a revolution, the Charismatic anti-goverment freedom promoting faction takes over and starts a dictatorship.

There is hope in that the people don't seem to be following any one person.  So that the different groups will be forced to work together.

Ironically, the road to democracy seems to be that of an unfocused uprising without a strong leader.



Rath on 28 January 2011
Kasz216 said:
mrstickball said:

Fully mixed feelings.

On one end, Egypt was a pretty benevolent dictatorship. Honsi Mubarak was certainly imperfect, but given his peers in the region, he looked like a saint: Made peace with Israel, never attacked anyone, never let the terrorists have their way in the region, and is generally (in my view) 'good'.

On the other end...It was still an authoritarian government, which likely was not the will of the people.

I worry what will become of this. I pray to God that if there is a revolution, they get a secular, Turkey-like Democracy that will strengthen ties with the west, and let people live in peace, and be very moderate to liberal for a Muslim-dominated state.

However, it seems that revolutions in the middle east are rarely a good thing :-

Worst yet, they are second or third in terms of US military support and aid. I would hate to see their M1 tanks turn on Israel, Turkey or other sane powers in the region.

Well revolutions EVERYWHERE are rarely a good thing.

I mean, the USA only got lucky that George Washington thought ruling as a dictatorship would be more of a pain then anything.

9 times out of 10 anywhere in the world, when their is a revolution, the Charismatic anti-goverment freedom promoting faction takes over and starts a dictatorship.

There is hope in that the people don't seem to be following any one person.  So that the different groups will be forced to work together.

Ironically, the road to democracy seems to be that of an unfocused uprising without a strong leader.

The Communist Europe revolutions are the closest analogue to these current ones, and those were almost all replaced with democracies.



Kasz216 on 28 January 2011
Rath said:
Kasz216 said:
mrstickball said:

Fully mixed feelings.

On one end, Egypt was a pretty benevolent dictatorship. Honsi Mubarak was certainly imperfect, but given his peers in the region, he looked like a saint: Made peace with Israel, never attacked anyone, never let the terrorists have their way in the region, and is generally (in my view) 'good'.

On the other end...It was still an authoritarian government, which likely was not the will of the people.

I worry what will become of this. I pray to God that if there is a revolution, they get a secular, Turkey-like Democracy that will strengthen ties with the west, and let people live in peace, and be very moderate to liberal for a Muslim-dominated state.

However, it seems that revolutions in the middle east are rarely a good thing :-

Worst yet, they are second or third in terms of US military support and aid. I would hate to see their M1 tanks turn on Israel, Turkey or other sane powers in the region.

Well revolutions EVERYWHERE are rarely a good thing.

I mean, the USA only got lucky that George Washington thought ruling as a dictatorship would be more of a pain then anything.

9 times out of 10 anywhere in the world, when their is a revolution, the Charismatic anti-goverment freedom promoting faction takes over and starts a dictatorship.

There is hope in that the people don't seem to be following any one person.  So that the different groups will be forced to work together.

Ironically, the road to democracy seems to be that of an unfocused uprising without a strong leader.

The Communist Europe revolutions are the closest analogue to these current ones, and those were almost all replaced with democracies.


Yeah, that was generally my thought as well.  It's why I'm hopefull.



makingmusic476 on 28 January 2011

I have much faith in whatever government the Egyptians can come up with post-Marbarak.  The majority of protesters seem to legitimately want freedom. 

Honestly, much of the Middle-east has changed.  Especially places not in the Iraq/Afghanistan area.  The internet is quite prevalent in countries like Egypt, and they know what life is like elsewhere.  Thanks to the Tunisian revolt, they now know that such freedoms are attainable for themselves.  I believe they will pursue it at all costs.  Hell, without the internet, they probably wouldn't have even known about the Tunisian revolt for days.

Hopefully they will be able to liberate themselves from Marbarak's rule, but it remains to be seen just whose side the military is on.  They've secured most of Cairo and Alexandria, supposedly under government orders, but they seem to be letting protesters roam free for the most part, despite the curfew that's in affect.  From Al Jazeera:

"The streets are definitely still abuzz," he said at 4am local time. "The chants have died down in the last hours but there are still many people out and about in the street despite the fact that there is a curfew supposed to have been imposed, starting from 6pm to 7am.

"The protests and the clashes with police have completely died down as a result of the fact that the police have melted away and the military has taken over."

Military armoured vehicles rolled onto the streets of the capital on Friday night in a bid to quell the protests. People cheered as the army arrived, and hundreds of people thronged around a military vehicle near Cairo's Tahrir square.

"The army is a respected establishment in Egypt, and many feel they need their support against what they see as excessive force by the police and security forces," our correspondent said.

Hopefully the Army will side with the people, but that remains to be seen.

Also, have you guys been keeping up with the protests in Jordan and Yemen?  This fire seems to be spreading all across North Africa and the Middle-east.  Other countries like Syria and Algeria could ignite at any moment.  The events of the past two weeks have been amazing, and this could end up being the most pivotal historical event for the future of the Middle-east.  The internet age is truly incredible.

---

For those interested in seeing footage of the conflict in Egypt, these two videos are a must:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTUsqra-MU&t=1m15s - Hundreds cheer as a lone protester stands up to an armored crowd control vehicle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo5Fn1-2E8o - Montage of various demonstrations and speeches.

 



Kasz216 on 28 January 2011
makingmusic476 said:

I have much faith in whatever government the Egyptians can come up with post-Marbarak.  The majority of protesters seem to legitimately want freedom. 

Honestly, much of the Middle-east has changed.  Especially places not in the Iraq/Afghanistan area.  The internet is quite prevalent in countries like Egypt, and they know what life is like elsewhere.  Thanks to the Tunisian revolt, they now know that such freedoms are attainable for themselves.  I believe they will pursue it at all costs.  Hell, without the internet, they probably wouldn't have even known about the Tunisian revolt for days.

Hopefully they will be able to liberate themselves from Marbarak's rule, but it remains to be seen just whose side the military is on.  They've secured most of Cairo and Alexandria, supposedly under government orders, but they seem to be letting protesters roam free for the most part, despite the curfew that's in affect.  From Al Jazeera:

"The streets are definitely still abuzz," he said at 4am local time. "The chants have died down in the last hours but there are still many people out and about in the street despite the fact that there is a curfew supposed to have been imposed, starting from 6pm to 7am.

"The protests and the clashes with police have completely died down as a result of the fact that the police have melted away and the military has taken over."

Military armoured vehicles rolled onto the streets of the capital on Friday night in a bid to quell the protests. People cheered as the army arrived, and hundreds of people thronged around a military vehicle near Cairo's Tahrir square.

"The army is a respected establishment in Egypt, and many feel they need their support against what they see as excessive force by the police and security forces," our correspondent said.

Hopefully the Army will side with the people, but that remains to be seen.

Also, have you guys been keeping up with the protests in Jordan and Yemen?  This fire seems to be spreading all across North Africa and the Middle-east.  Other countries like Syria and Algeria could ignite at any moment.  The events of the past two weeks have been amazing, and this could end up being the most pivotal historical event for the future of the Middle-east.  The internet age is truly incredible.

---

For those interested in seeing footage of the conflict in Egypt, these two videos are a must:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTUsqra-MU&t=1m15s - Hundreds cheer as a lone protester stands up to an armored crowd control vehicle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo5Fn1-2E8o - Montage of various demonstrations and speeches.

 

Yemen yes.  Jordan i hadn't heard.