By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Can Egyptians do it?

Rath on 29 January 2011
ssj12 said:

I have an odd feeling if Egypt went to war with Israel now many Arab nations would join. Hopefully the Palestinians would get their country back.


If Egypt went to war with Israel now and all the Arab countries joined in, you would get a repeat of previous Arab wars against Israel. Israel would probably expand its borders and would definitively annex large amounts of Palestinian lands.

Why the hell are you so keen for war in the Middle-East? It's so blatantly not the solution to the regions problems.



Around the Network
ssj12 on 29 January 2011
Rath said:
ssj12 said:

I have an odd feeling if Egypt went to war with Israel now many Arab nations would join. Hopefully the Palestinians would get their country back.


If Egypt went to war with Israel now and all the Arab countries joined in, you would get a repeat of previous Arab wars against Israel. Israel would probably expand its borders and would definitively annex large amounts of Palestinian lands.

Why the hell are you so keen for war in the Middle-East? It's so blatantly not the solution to the regions problems.


I don't like Israel?



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
Rath on 29 January 2011
ssj12 said:
Rath said:
ssj12 said:

I have an odd feeling if Egypt went to war with Israel now many Arab nations would join. Hopefully the Palestinians would get their country back.


If Egypt went to war with Israel now and all the Arab countries joined in, you would get a repeat of previous Arab wars against Israel. Israel would probably expand its borders and would definitively annex large amounts of Palestinian lands.

Why the hell are you so keen for war in the Middle-East? It's so blatantly not the solution to the regions problems.


I don't like Israel?

Even if you don't like Israel the Arab countries declaring war on it is a bad thing. There is no way they would win, there would be plenty of needless deaths and it would probably add another 50 years to the date in which there is finally peace in the Middle East.



Badassbab on 29 January 2011
bmmb1 said:
Badassbab said:
bmmb1 said:
Badassbab said:
bmmb1 said:
Badassbab said:

Oh no! The Egyptians might take control of their own future rather than be lackeys of the US. Shock horror, they are going to become independant like Iran. Can't have that. They must remain subserviant to the Western Elite interests so let's get our secret services involved, work with the elitist minority of the country and destroy the burgeoning democratic movement like has been done (mostly) successfully for the last few decades in the region and around the world.

Democracy only if it's in our interets right?

"independant like Iran" - I stopped reading at that point.

Like I care. You just want countries to remain subservient to US power. When I said independant I meant of the US orbit. Of course that couldn't possibly enter your psyche fed on a diet of Corporate media with narrowrily defined interests and debate which works on the assumption the US rules the world.

Haha you should very much care. You are so blind in your hate of the US that you think anything that is independent of that is good. I guess then you think all psychopaths should be in the streets as well and independent? No? Actually contrary to my profile I am not from the US (I put US at the time because I have a US Wii), nor have I been successfully brainwashed by anything or anybody, all my conclusions have been based on listenting to many different points of view. I believe in live and let live, and that is where my problem with Iran comes from - they don't. Iran's rulers believe in and practice the Jihad, and sooner or later their "independence" will bite you,me and everybody else in the ass (unless you subscribe to their way of life).

Typical argument to make. If one welcomes challange to a narrow elite sector of the US then mudslinging is brought into the equation and it's called hatred of the US. I do hate oppression and elitism in all forms whether Iran or the US. And do I look like I'm equating the popular grass roots struggle in Egypt with pyschopaths? No that's you. Because in your racist world view Arabs are all crazy pychopaths who need to be controlled.

And are you seriously blaming Iran as the only country that oppresses it's people (and presumably other people though it's not clear who). When did your hatred of Iran start? After the major propaganda effort by the corporate media over the last few years (once Iraq was destroyed) to demonise it? You've just fallen into that basic trap again. Do you have any idea of the power structure of the world? Because if you did you wouldn't be making laugable statements such as a jihadist Iran biting us in the ass. PMSL. And I don't see Iran invading and occupying other countires. In fact they haven't attacked another in country for centuries. If anything they are the ones under threat. Massive threat.

You need to get off your imperialist high horse and realise you have no right to tell people in other countries what to do with their resources and how to run their own internal and external affairs. Reading and listening to a wide range of viewpoints yeah right.

"I do hate oppression and elitism in all forms whether Iran or the US" - no you obviously don't hate Iran, reading what you wrote further on you are either totally brainwashed, very innocent, or one way or the other in their allegiance. And please don't put words in my mouth, I didn't equate the protesters in Egypt with psychopaths, I equate the Iranian regime with psychopaths. You must be right, Iran is the one under a massive threat and is keeping to itself - I guess organizations like hezbollah are just grassroots movement with no connection to Iran... We'll have to agree to utterly, completely disagree.

"Reading and listening to a wide range of viewpoints yeah right." - of course I couldn't have done that, because anyone who would listen to a lot of different viewpoints would of course arrive to your way of viewing things, right.

No I don't hate Iran, I hate oppression whatever the country. I don't hate a whole nation like you do, just the elites within any given country that oppresses it's people including the theocratic rulers of Iran. Furthermore I didn't bring Iran to this thread it was you because you've been sucked in by the blatent anti Iranian propaganda over the past few years and you couldn't help but mention it. It's all well and good calling the rulers of Iran pychopaths without a shred of evidence to back up your claims  (even if they are of a unsavioury character) but there are countries in this world that have actually killed millions of people over the last few decades. Now that is what I call psychotic.

And Hezbollah is a grassroots movement. Yeah it get's funding from Iran and Syria and has carried out some terrorist atrocities but it's crimes pales in comparison to other actors in the region which I'm sure you will happily overlook because if we do it, it's not a crime, if someone else does it then it's a crime. And Iran is the one under massive threat. This is standard elementary knowledge. How you do not know this speakes volume of the type of information your in reciept of.






Badassbab on 29 January 2011
mrstickball said:

 

As for the guy and the Iranian comments: When you have a countries that brutalizes its people when they want an alternative party, and fixes the elections, I don't think that you live in a free, independent country. Read the news. The elections were falsified. If you want to consider Iran free after what happened during and after their most recent election, then there is no way to have a rational conversation with you.


Once again I repeat. When I speak of an independant Iran, I mean of the US orbit. This is the issue with Iran. Not that they are ruled by a theocratic thugish bunch, not the fact that the democracy there is flawed and candidates are vetted as to whether they are Islamic enough, not the fact that it has a poor human rights records. We don't care about that. Hence we support (and have been doing for decades) dictatorships and absolute monarchs in the region with strict barbaric medieval Islamic Law.

No what we hate about Iran is that it is too independant in it's foreign policy. It is a challange to US domination of the region. Iran won't directly challange US domination of the Middle East (far too weak to do that) that's not a problem but problem we do have with it is it won't do as it's told. This is unacceptible if you work on the assumption we rule the world. It wasn't so bad when it was ruled by the dictator Shah before '79 because he was an ally (read subservient) even if his secret police  (CIA trained SAVAK) killed and tortured thousands of it's own people. Nope we didn't care about democracy and human rights then in fact we helped overthrow Irans first democractically elected prime minister to help bring about the dictatorship of the brutal Shah regime.

So when the Oval office preaches freedom and democracy for the region or that this or that country is a threat I just know it's all bullshit propaganda.






Around the Network
Rath on 29 January 2011
Joelcool7 said:

Honestly Egypt would probably become a Islamic dictatorship. Minority groups are already treated like shit in Egypt if an Islamic extremist group seized power then their would be a slaughter, best case scenerio wide spread persecution worse then what is already happening.

Countries in need of a revolution are Iran, Eritrea , China , Burma... those kinds of countries need a good uprising. Egypt at the moment while not democratic is still a more moderate country then those listed. Also extremists are way to popular in Egypt!

I would also say an uprising in Gaza would be nice, see Hamas kicked out of power and Fatah take over or a more moderate government.

Also someone mentioned Lebanon as a great example. I wouldn't consider a country held hostage by terrorists a good alternative to any Government. Hezbullah kills anyone who decents they're accused of several assasinations of Lebanese dignitaries. Right now Hezbullah is taking over Lebanon. No Lebanon is not a great example!


The Muslim Brotherhood may not be entirely to my tastes, but for an Islamist party they are really very moderate. Certainly they are no Hezbollah. In any case they do not seem to be even aiming to take power after this revolution, they are merely aiming to be part of the new government - they have stated that they want any new government to be democratic.

 

It's very sad to me that so much looting and thuggery is going on in Egypt at the moment. It's not the revolutionaries that are doing it, it's opportunist scum.



Kasz216 on 29 January 2011
elticker said:
mrstickball said:
elticker said:

btw some police forces which are remaining are using live ammunition. Also i forgut high live the egyptain army. Oh yeah and the people saying w=if we engage with israel we would get fucked in 6 october

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

we did a victory which will go in the book of every egyptain as we were technologically undermanned and israel was backed by weaponary from the usa. Also we broke the barlief defense which was the strongest defence in the o=world at that time with WATER!!

Uh, you didn't read that Wikipedia page at all, did you?

Israeli tactical victory[1] and a UN cease-fire after UNSCR 338, 339 and 340, leading to the Geneva Conference and the Sinai Interim Agreement.

Egyptian Losses:

8,000[14]–18,500[15] dead
18,000[14]-35,000[16] wounded
8,783 captured

 

Israeli Losses:

2,521[17]–2,800 dead[14]
7,250[18]-8,800[14] wounded
293 captured

 

 

 

As for the guy and the Iranian comments: When you have a countries that brutalizes its people when they want an alternative party, and fixes the elections, I don't think that you live in a free, independant country. Read the news. The elections were falsified. If you want to consider Iran fre after what happened during and after that election, then there is no way to have a rational conversation with you.


thats like saying the germans tactically won russia by killing 20 million for 3 million. This is not important the most important is the psychological aspect which we won. also what did you expect we fought against israel backed with america so that showed that we stand a chance. Also i never said egypt is a free country i said it was a dictatorship which is going through a revolution to democracy. the 6 october war redemed the ashamed arab from the 6 day war which is huge since we were humilaited for it. 

Except... you didn't win.  Everyone sees that as an Egyptian loss... except apparently Egypt.  Probably due to your dictator and propaganda ironically.



Kasz216 on 29 January 2011
Rath said:
ssj12 said:
Rath said:
ssj12 said:

I have an odd feeling if Egypt went to war with Israel now many Arab nations would join. Hopefully the Palestinians would get their country back.


If Egypt went to war with Israel now and all the Arab countries joined in, you would get a repeat of previous Arab wars against Israel. Israel would probably expand its borders and would definitively annex large amounts of Palestinian lands.

Why the hell are you so keen for war in the Middle-East? It's so blatantly not the solution to the regions problems.


I don't like Israel?

Even if you don't like Israel the Arab countries declaring war on it is a bad thing. There is no way they would win, there would be plenty of needless deaths and it would probably add another 50 years to the date in which there is finally peace in the Middle East.

Yeah, the Middle East would just be outgunned... and you know, even if they did start winning the war.

Israel has Nukes...and not only nukes but "second strike" nukes.  In otherwords, nukes that even if you nuked them first, they could pay you back.



Kasz216 on 29 January 2011
Rath said:
Joelcool7 said:

Honestly Egypt would probably become a Islamic dictatorship. Minority groups are already treated like shit in Egypt if an Islamic extremist group seized power then their would be a slaughter, best case scenerio wide spread persecution worse then what is already happening.

Countries in need of a revolution are Iran, Eritrea , China , Burma... those kinds of countries need a good uprising. Egypt at the moment while not democratic is still a more moderate country then those listed. Also extremists are way to popular in Egypt!

I would also say an uprising in Gaza would be nice, see Hamas kicked out of power and Fatah take over or a more moderate government.

Also someone mentioned Lebanon as a great example. I wouldn't consider a country held hostage by terrorists a good alternative to any Government. Hezbullah kills anyone who decents they're accused of several assasinations of Lebanese dignitaries. Right now Hezbullah is taking over Lebanon. No Lebanon is not a great example!


The Muslim Brotherhood may not be entirely to my tastes, but for an Islamist party they are really very moderate. Certainly they are no Hezbollah. In any case they do not seem to be even aiming to take power after this revolution, they are merely aiming to be part of the new government - they have stated that they want any new government to be democratic.

 

It's very sad to me that so much looting and thuggery is going on in Egypt at the moment. It's not the revolutionaries that are doing it, it's opportunist scum.

I mean, can anyone point to the last time there has been a revolution or rioting WITHOUT violence and looting?

Hell Martian Luthor King Junior often had to avoid police because people would instigate violence and robbery during his peace marches.



Rath on 29 January 2011
Kasz216 said:

I mean, can anyone point to the last time there has been a revolution or rioting WITHOUT violence and looting?

Hell Martian Luthor King Junior often had to avoid police because people would instigate violence and robbery during his peace marches.

The police have entirely abandoned Egypt though, Tunisia for example was much less violent than Egypt.