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Forums - Microsoft - FPS on Kinect. Controlled with just 1 hand.

Scoobes on 19 January 2011
Mr.Metralha said:
Scoobes said:
Mr.Metralha said:

I bet that on the other hand he's got a controller to walk around.

I wonder if it works as good as Wii pointer controls, some people say it is better than a mouse (And I agree on that front) and yet there's people claiming the opposite.

 

Also, this is just the pointer controls. That's about 5% of the total gameplay keys of an FPS. No way you can play an entire FPS with good controls on a kinect. You'll always need a controller.

 

I think that comes down to differences of opinion and what people are looking for in a pointing device. If they want pure efficiency then I think the Mouse has the Wii pointer beat. However, for immersion and the feeling that you are actually shooting with a gun (including your own shaky inaccuracies) the Wii pointer is great.

How come that I can pull of a headshot better with Wii pointer controls over mouse then?

This in games like Conduit or GoldenEye where the controls are really smooth. CoD Wii sucks controlwise, sorry for the offtopic.

You have really steady hands? :P

If I use the mouse it stays completely still and have full control whereas the Wii-mote crosshair is always on the move when I'm pointing. I also find turning a lot quicker on the PC with Kb & Ms. Trying to do 180 turns using Wii-mote takes a little longer I find.




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Darth Tigris on 19 January 2011
Mummelmann said:
Darth Tigris said:
Mummelmann said:
Darth Tigris said:
Mummelmann said:

So this is how it is then; if this video does not convince me or someone else that Kinect is the best way to play FPS (and probably all other games) we are haters and refuse to admit how baffled we are at how astonishingly this works?

My god this place is full of conspiracy theorists, its like being in a Robert Ludlum novel...


Best?  No.  Definitely playable?  Yes.


Agreed, and that was my whole point. Thank you!

Its fun doing something different sometimes but as a rule I think I'll stick to keyboard and mouse for a while longer.


So you're one of the ones that doesn't even want to play them with a controller, eh?  But many do, as they have adjusted to be better played with a controller.  I'd expect the same here.


Are you suggesting that gamepads are better for FPS controls?

 

Gamepads are no match for mouse and keyboard when it comes to precision, speed, sensitivity and possible key mapping (which is why a lot of consoles have such clunky menu systems).

Nope.  I'm saying that games designed for a keyboard and mouse work better with that, games designed for a controller usually work better with that, etc.  

I tried playing HL2 on my PC when it first came out and had a really hard time with navigating the environment with a keyboard.  I got to the buggy section before I gave up (actually had more to do with the motion sickness, though) and waited until The Orange Box on 360 before playing again and I enjoyed it much more.

There could be a time when the Kinect generation (can't believe I just typed that) that is raised on First Person games using that interface prefer IT to what we are used to.  



Goddbless on 19 January 2011
thranx said:
fps_d0minat0r said:
thranx said:
Reasonable said:
thranx said:
Oblivion86 said:
thranx said:
Reasonable said:

Gotta say that looks fake to me.  Colour me surprised otherwise, but I don't see any movement correlation between the character movement and the player.  He seems to be shooting but I don't see how he's making those very fast, smooth turns and forward/back movements while apparently sitting still.

He might be triggering the shooting but I'm suspicious there's some other input or macro handling the movement.  I've used Kinect that looks pretty suspicous vs normal movement needed to register an input based on my experience and how he's moving.

I'll have to file this under disbelief for now and await further evidence.


"One handed operation of a FPS (First Person Shooter) using the Kinect Sensor.
MaxFPS is a high speed kinematic tracker; one hand (yes only one) is used for direction control (turn right/left), forward/reverse (variable speed), look (and target) up/down, jump, change weapon, fire and continues fire.
Designed by Bill Maxwell."

 

Seems like what is going on in the vid. Any specific times on the vid that it seems like things are out of wack? It looked pretty legit to me. Hopefuly it is legit as it shows people are already over coming the "limitaions" of kinect.


Yeah it is only using the depth senor, after they include the RGB and Infared for full body tracking improved gestures, I can see ALOT of exceptional possibilities.

if he is controlling the forward backward movement ith how far your hand is from your body that is a pretty smart idea. I think that is what he is doing. And the quick down movement for changing weapons also loks fairly good


I was wondering that - but his movements are tiny and he's getting very fine control.  Playing Kinect with Joyride for example you seem to need much more movement to get that kind of fine tuning.  He's hardly moving.

I guess the other issue for me is how much is based on addition PC processing power here and how reasonable is it (pardon the pun) to add this code alongside game code on 360 itself?

My other main issue is my normal one with hands free - why bother?  Holding your hand forward/back etc for a 3 hour FPS session sure isn't going to be as good as sitting back with a gamepad in your lap.  Unless it's better with Kinect - and at the moment they're just to trying to get it equal - then I see no reason to use it.

Form and function for me.  If Kinect is superior input then fine - for example it is for Dance Central and Adventures - but if its inferior then its a gimmick - for example using Kinect for Joyride is a gimmick, its a noticably worse control scheme just for the sake of doing it vs using a gamepad or wheel.

I'm sure more will surface - but right now the desire to support an FPS with Kinect for me is a bit pointless as I see no reason to want to use it for real other than fun factor gimmick.


At 2:17 he states it uses less than 1% of its processor for tracking. I don't know if that is a lot, but it sure doesn't sound like a lot.

If you just aren't interested in Kinect FPS why bother with this thread? You may not like the immersion it may offer, but from the looks of things plenty of other people do. No need to call it a gimmick just cause you do not like it. Some of us like to get up and move around when we play games. Same reason I like wii fps, wich i usually have my arms in the air for. In fact the controls are extremly similar to wii fps, just without the analog stick.


Because we thought this thread would prove us all wrong........it hasnt. i still doesnt prove how you would make up for all the other buttons....even i know kinect can move camera angles and do a couple of actions but the point is theres still not a practical control configuration which commercial fps' can utilise.

every time there is a thread like this, i will check it for curiosity and that small chance someone may have figured something out.

what moves are missing that are needed for fps?


How would he strafe left/right?



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BMaker11 on 19 January 2011

That's guy looks like he's having so much fun....



thranx on 20 January 2011
Goddbless said:
thranx said:
fps_d0minat0r said:
thranx said:
Reasonable said:
thranx said:
Oblivion86 said:
thranx said:
Reasonable said:

Gotta say that looks fake to me.  Colour me surprised otherwise, but I don't see any movement correlation between the character movement and the player.  He seems to be shooting but I don't see how he's making those very fast, smooth turns and forward/back movements while apparently sitting still.

He might be triggering the shooting but I'm suspicious there's some other input or macro handling the movement.  I've used Kinect that looks pretty suspicous vs normal movement needed to register an input based on my experience and how he's moving.

I'll have to file this under disbelief for now and await further evidence.


"One handed operation of a FPS (First Person Shooter) using the Kinect Sensor.
MaxFPS is a high speed kinematic tracker; one hand (yes only one) is used for direction control (turn right/left), forward/reverse (variable speed), look (and target) up/down, jump, change weapon, fire and continues fire.
Designed by Bill Maxwell."

 

Seems like what is going on in the vid. Any specific times on the vid that it seems like things are out of wack? It looked pretty legit to me. Hopefuly it is legit as it shows people are already over coming the "limitaions" of kinect.


Yeah it is only using the depth senor, after they include the RGB and Infared for full body tracking improved gestures, I can see ALOT of exceptional possibilities.

if he is controlling the forward backward movement ith how far your hand is from your body that is a pretty smart idea. I think that is what he is doing. And the quick down movement for changing weapons also loks fairly good


I was wondering that - but his movements are tiny and he's getting very fine control.  Playing Kinect with Joyride for example you seem to need much more movement to get that kind of fine tuning.  He's hardly moving.

I guess the other issue for me is how much is based on addition PC processing power here and how reasonable is it (pardon the pun) to add this code alongside game code on 360 itself?

My other main issue is my normal one with hands free - why bother?  Holding your hand forward/back etc for a 3 hour FPS session sure isn't going to be as good as sitting back with a gamepad in your lap.  Unless it's better with Kinect - and at the moment they're just to trying to get it equal - then I see no reason to use it.

Form and function for me.  If Kinect is superior input then fine - for example it is for Dance Central and Adventures - but if its inferior then its a gimmick - for example using Kinect for Joyride is a gimmick, its a noticably worse control scheme just for the sake of doing it vs using a gamepad or wheel.

I'm sure more will surface - but right now the desire to support an FPS with Kinect for me is a bit pointless as I see no reason to want to use it for real other than fun factor gimmick.


At 2:17 he states it uses less than 1% of its processor for tracking. I don't know if that is a lot, but it sure doesn't sound like a lot.

If you just aren't interested in Kinect FPS why bother with this thread? You may not like the immersion it may offer, but from the looks of things plenty of other people do. No need to call it a gimmick just cause you do not like it. Some of us like to get up and move around when we play games. Same reason I like wii fps, wich i usually have my arms in the air for. In fact the controls are extremly similar to wii fps, just without the analog stick.


Because we thought this thread would prove us all wrong........it hasnt. i still doesnt prove how you would make up for all the other buttons....even i know kinect can move camera angles and do a couple of actions but the point is theres still not a practical control configuration which commercial fps' can utilise.

every time there is a thread like this, i will check it for curiosity and that small chance someone may have figured something out.

what moves are missing that are needed for fps?


How would he strafe left/right?

Good point! Suprised I hadn't notice. Perhaps he could include strafing with the second hand? I'll have to brain storm some ideas. But I did not see strafing in there



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Mummelmann on 20 January 2011
Darth Tigris said:
Mummelmann said:
Darth Tigris said:
Mummelmann said:
Darth Tigris said:
Mummelmann said:

So this is how it is then; if this video does not convince me or someone else that Kinect is the best way to play FPS (and probably all other games) we are haters and refuse to admit how baffled we are at how astonishingly this works?

My god this place is full of conspiracy theorists, its like being in a Robert Ludlum novel...


Best?  No.  Definitely playable?  Yes.


Agreed, and that was my whole point. Thank you!

Its fun doing something different sometimes but as a rule I think I'll stick to keyboard and mouse for a while longer.


So you're one of the ones that doesn't even want to play them with a controller, eh?  But many do, as they have adjusted to be better played with a controller.  I'd expect the same here.


Are you suggesting that gamepads are better for FPS controls?

 

Gamepads are no match for mouse and keyboard when it comes to precision, speed, sensitivity and possible key mapping (which is why a lot of consoles have such clunky menu systems).

Nope.  I'm saying that games designed for a keyboard and mouse work better with that, games designed for a controller usually work better with that, etc.  

I tried playing HL2 on my PC when it first came out and had a really hard time with navigating the environment with a keyboard.  I got to the buggy section before I gave up (actually had more to do with the motion sickness, though) and waited until The Orange Box on 360 before playing again and I enjoyed it much more.

There could be a time when the Kinect generation (can't believe I just typed that) that is raised on First Person games using that interface prefer IT to what we are used to.  

Ah, I see. That's a whole other deal then. Preference is what matters in the end, after all. I can see how people who have spent the majority of gaming on consoles would find keyboard and mouse controls strange in comparison, and vice versa.



Reasonable on 20 January 2011
thranx said:

 

You're a an automatic believer, I'm a doubting Thomas, that's all there is to it.

So far, after years with Wii on the market, few titles have exploited it despite a huge install base.  So far Kinect has 1 good title - Dance Central - and a smattering of decent titles.  None of them really feel that different from Wii in pricinple - even Dance Central TBH.

We've seen some clever mods using Kinect on PC - but nothing I've seen indicates that we're going to see developers suddenly make Kinect the best way to play an FPS (and by FPS I mean combat focused like Halo or CoD, not a slower hybrid title like say Fallout 3).

If they do, I'll use it, but I'm doubtful at this point.  Just the loss of rumble for a game that primarily involves shooting something with recoil is a huge negative for Kinect vs a gamepad or Wiimote for example, never mind reliably coming up with a deep enough control scheme to handle straffing, reload, accurate, variable movement in a 3D environment, etc.

So you believe - I certainly have no issue with that nor with Kinect in general - but I will continue to doubt until proven otherwise.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Alby_da_Wolf on 20 January 2011
Mummelmann said:
Darth Tigris said:

[...]

Nope.  I'm saying that games designed for a keyboard and mouse work better with that, games designed for a controller usually work better with that, etc.  

I tried playing HL2 on my PC when it first came out and had a really hard time with navigating the environment with a keyboard.  I got to the buggy section before I gave up (actually had more to do with the motion sickness, though) and waited until The Orange Box on 360 before playing again and I enjoyed it much more.

There could be a time when the Kinect generation (can't believe I just typed that) that is raised on First Person games using that interface prefer IT to what we are used to.  

Ah, I see. That's a whole other deal then. Preference is what matters in the end, after all. I can see how people who have spent the majority of gaming on consoles would find keyboard and mouse controls strange in comparison, and vice versa.

I agree. Wide groups of gamers exist if we categorize them by favoured controls, k/m on PC, controllers amongst existing console "hardcores", wands in the new market created by Wii, and now Kinect. Part of the people in these groups will use their favourite control for everything, but big minorities will prefer to use specialized or just different controls, possibly one of the other major ones, for some games and genres. For example, I mostly use keyboard plus mouse and I bought a small ergonomic gaming keyboard too with only ~40 keys, but I utterly suck at racers if I don't use a wheel and I use keyboard plus joystick not only for flight sims, but also for mechs. Once I tried mouse plus joystick even for Quake ][, but I quickly dropped this idea and instead I dedicated more time to find a control mapping for mouse and keyboard that fitted better my tastes.



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Silver-Tiger on 20 January 2011

Wow, that actually looks quite promising. When Kinect released , i would have called everyone who said FPS on Kinect are possible crazy, but after seeing this....



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