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Forums - Gaming - IGN:- PS3 vs Xbox 360 Year in Review 2010

DirtyP2002 said:

I can't believe there are still some people claiming Move would be better than Kinect. Kinect killed move in every single aspect. This is not trolling in any way, this is something we call "the truth".


Nope, that is definately false and your last statement is just stupid.



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -My good friend Mark Aurelius

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daroamer said:
mantlepiecek said:


Err...?

Most games are made for the PC and then ported over to the 360 and PS3. Or developed separately on each of them. It doesn't matter if you play from your couch or in front of your monitor, the experience is the same. Its actually better on the PC most of the times because of higher frame-rates and better graphics. But the overall experience of the game remains most of the times, the same.

That's not the same case with move. Killzone 3 might be played by more people with a DS 3, but we all know that the best way to play it is by a sharpshooter. Which is why the killzone developers have distributed these sharpshooters to all the major reviewers. Same goes for socom and MAG and resident evil 5 and RUSE(which btw, is fantastic with Move. Its an RTS, and was specifically launched with move).

Most discount PC when discussing 360's exclusives because they are not available on the PS3, and if its a choice to buy either PS3 or 360, the "exclusive" list helps them. That's usually because a normal person's PC wouldn't be strong enough to play the 360/PC games. You would be surprised if you actually knew the no. of people that actually play on the PC, if you include everyone who pirates their games. As it is there are 30 million on steam, and many more who don't have a steam account who play PCs, and then there are people who play only offline as well. And then the pirates.

Do you honestly think that left 4 Dead was pushed as a 360 game? It was pushed as a PC game just like all the other valve games. Same with metro 2033 and all other PC games that were ported over to the 360.

 If the experience was the same AND you got better graphics then PC would be destroying consoles.  Why do I keep reading about how PC gaming is dying?

Move is to PC version of console exclusives as a controller is the 360.  It's very consistent.

Actually I disagree with your first statements. Did you ever think price could play a role in this? Also, the fact that you constantly have to keep upgrading, in order to have the best graphics AND the fact that most people are not tech savvy to understand everything you need to, in order to play your games? PC gaming is not dying any time soon, and whoever says that, is dead wrong. Just look at all the true exclusives released on the pc the last few years alone. They far outnumber the 360's or ps3's lol. Console exclusives are games released only on the consoles, and not the pc btw. SC, ME2, Fable 3, and Metro 2033 are not exclusives in any way.



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -My good friend Mark Aurelius

daroamer said:

How is it remotely the same?

Keyboard and mouse vs gamepad.

20something inch monitor vs big screen TV.

Couch vs office chair.

Stereo computer speakers vs surround sound.

MOST people have a far better setup for their TV than their computer which is why consoles are more popular.  If the experience was the same AND you got better graphics then PC would be destroying consoles.  Why do I keep reading about how PC gaming is dying?

I also never said anything about dev tools, I know games are designed on PCs, but the development push is GENERALLY towards the console version.  That is how the controls are optimised. If you think it's all about list wars then that's your view, but I disgree.  Most people prefer to play on consoles.

30 million steam users vs 85 millions Wiis, 51 millions 360 and 46 million PS3s.  It's still no contest.

You still failed in your argument.

"Killzone 3 might be played by more people with a DS 3, but we all know that the best way to play it is by a sharpshooter"

We all know that?  The game isn't even out yet.  Stop with the hyperbole.

Move is to PC version of console exclusives as a controller is the 360.  It's very consistent.

Keyboard and mouse, both superior to gamepad for fpses.

Controllers can be used as well. And with ease, I might add.

20 something inch monitor so close actually is more effective than a big screen TV (depends upon the size though) and sitting on a couch. You can clearly see the jaggies and the low-res, its not so easy on the consoles because you sit back further.

Stereo speakers? You can use any speaker on a PC.

Most people don't have gaming consoles in the first place. But many people have PCs.

The experience is the same because graphics don't contribute much in terms of experience when we are talking things like resolution, and better textures. Sure its great to have them, but ultimately the art is the same and so is the experience, as long as you are playing in a respectable frame-rate. 

Killzone 3's best is not how most people play it, its best is how developers want them to be played. And that is with sharpshooter in 3D, even though it doesn't give an edge in multiplayer, its a different experience compared to DS3. Now most people will obviously not play it that way, since its much more expensive than the just using a DS 3. Does that make it better? No, everything that most people do usually means its cost effective. Its not always a better experience.

Also 30 million steam users is just the steam users. There are other ways of playing games on the PC like retail games, games for windows live.

And it has increased by now.

Consoles aren't any different from a PC. If someone had the $$$, they would hook up their PC to their TV and play it on the couch with a controller. They just use the cheaper option.

Anyway the discussion was move vs kinect games in 2010. I don't see why we shouldn't include launch games like RUSE and resident evil 5 : Move Edition since they were launched or relaunched with move. The normal edition of resident evil 5 doesn't work with move, they actually changed it during their making of gold edition for the move. And resident evil 4 was on the wii, so its obvious resident evil 5 was as good as a title built from ground up for move.



mantlepiecek said:
daroamer said:

How is it remotely the same?

Keyboard and mouse vs gamepad.

20something inch monitor vs big screen TV.

Couch vs office chair.

Stereo computer speakers vs surround sound.

MOST people have a far better setup for their TV than their computer which is why consoles are more popular.  If the experience was the same AND you got better graphics then PC would be destroying consoles.  Why do I keep reading about how PC gaming is dying?

I also never said anything about dev tools, I know games are designed on PCs, but the development push is GENERALLY towards the console version.  That is how the controls are optimised. If you think it's all about list wars then that's your view, but I disgree.  Most people prefer to play on consoles.

30 million steam users vs 85 millions Wiis, 51 millions 360 and 46 million PS3s.  It's still no contest.

You still failed in your argument.

"Killzone 3 might be played by more people with a DS 3, but we all know that the best way to play it is by a sharpshooter"

We all know that?  The game isn't even out yet.  Stop with the hyperbole.

Move is to PC version of console exclusives as a controller is the 360.  It's very consistent.

Keyboard and mouse, both superior to gamepad for fpses.

Controllers can be used as well. And with ease, I might add.

20 something inch monitor so close actually is more effective than a big screen TV (depends upon the size though) and sitting on a couch. You can clearly see the jaggies and the low-res, its not so easy on the consoles because you sit back further.

Stereo speakers? You can use any speaker on a PC.

Most people don't have gaming consoles in the first place. But many people have PCs.

The experience is the same because graphics don't contribute much in terms of experience when we are talking things like resolution, and better textures. Sure its great to have them, but ultimately the art is the same and so is the experience, as long as you are playing in a respectable frame-rate. 

Killzone 3's best is not how most people play it, its best is how developers want them to be played. And that is with sharpshooter in 3D, even though it doesn't give an edge in multiplayer, its a different experience compared to DS3. Now most people will obviously not play it that way, since its much more expensive than the just using a DS 3. Does that make it better? No, everything that most people do usually means its cost effective. Its not always a better experience.

Also 30 million steam users is just the steam users. There are other ways of playing games on the PC like retail games, games for windows live.

And it has increased by now.

Consoles aren't any different from a PC. If someone had the $$$, they would hook up their PC to their TV and play it on the couch with a controller. They just use the cheaper option.

Anyway the discussion was move vs kinect games in 2010. I don't see why we shouldn't include launch games like RUSE and resident evil 5 : Move Edition since they were launched or relaunched with move. The normal edition of resident evil 5 doesn't work with move, they actually changed it during their making of gold edition for the move. And resident evil 4 was on the wii, so its obvious resident evil 5 was as good as a title built from ground up for move.

So most people have surround sound on thier PCs?

Most people have a better sound system hooked up to their PCs?

Most people would be happy sitting 2 feet from thier monitor in order to simulate the size of a 48" HDTV at couch distance?

Most people have controllers hooked up to their PCs?

FPSs are all anyone plays so there keyboard and mouse are superior?  What about platformers?  RPGs?  Racing games? 

Most people are just as comfortable in an office chair than on a couch?

Most people can afford gaming PCs?

Please use some common sense. 

If you really think developers focus on PC as much as consoles you're fooling yourself.  You even said yourself piracy is rampant on PC, why would developers focus on that platform?  Why are controls for most games developed around using a controller?  Think about it.

 

"Killzone 3's best is not how most people play it, its best is how developers want them to be played."

"I don't see why we shouldn't include launch games like RUSE and resident evil 5 : Move Edition"

So was RE5 intended by the developers to be played with Move, or was it tacked on?  According to your first statement the best way to play is the way it was intended.



You can't prove to someone else who has different values that something you like is better than something they like. Give it up people!



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daroamer said:


"I don't see why we shouldn't include launch games like RUSE and resident evil 5 : Move Edition"

So was RE5 intended by the developers to be played with Move, or was it tacked on?  According to your first statement the best way to play is the way it was intended.

What point are you trying to make?   Are you still trying to portay this idea that Kinect has better games for it?   Going by Metacritic,  Move has better, more, quality games for it when compared to Kinect.  Whether the controls are tacked on, or not it doesn't matter.  



daroamer said:

How is it remotely the same?

Keyboard and mouse vs gamepad.

And the fact you can attach any controller on a PC, including 360 (officially) and PS3 (unofficially) controllers.

20something inch monitor vs big screen TV.

Close up meaning you see far more detail.

Couch vs office chair.

Or laptop?

Stereo computer speakers vs surround sound.

Does everyone have surround sound on their TVs? This point is invalid for most people.

MOST people have a far better setup for their TV than their computer which is why consoles are more popular.  If the experience was the same AND you got better graphics then PC would be destroying consoles.  Why do I keep reading about how PC gaming is dying?

This has been said for ages, and guess what? it never happens. See pic below.

I also never said anything about dev tools, I know games are designed on PCs, but the development push is GENERALLY towards the console version.  That is how the controls are optimised. If you think it's all about list wars then that's your view, but I disgree.  Most people prefer to play on consoles.

How do you know this? Have you done a survey of the numbers of PC gamers? Have you seen the number of developers that produce PC games? It's far more than for all consoles combined. Only the richest of devs/publishers can afford to release for the consoles and even then they nearly always release a PC version.

30 million steam users vs 85 millions Wiis, 51 millions 360 and 46 million PS3s.  It's still no contest.

30 million active Steam accounts (and growing) is not representative of the entirety of PC gaming. It only represents a fraction of PC gamers. It would be like saying only people with Wii motion should be counted as Wii gamers, or that the 11 million WoW players are representative of all PC gamers. There are still a lot of other services (like GFWL, Battlenet, GOG etc.) on top of offline gamers, MMO players, etc.

You still failed in your argument.

"Killzone 3 might be played by more people with a DS 3, but we all know that the best way to play it is by a sharpshooter"

We all know that?  The game isn't even out yet.  Stop with the hyperbole.

Move is to PC version of console exclusives as a controller is the 360.  It's very consistent.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation in your post. Also, I'm not sure how your comparison relates in any way to Move and the PS3. The analogy makes no sense.

Oh, and:



Scoobes said:
daroamer said:

How is it remotely the same?

Keyboard and mouse vs gamepad.

And the fact you can attach any controller on a PC, including 360 (officially) and PS3 (unofficially) controllers.

20something inch monitor vs big screen TV.

Close up meaning you see far more detail.

Couch vs office chair.

Or laptop?

Stereo computer speakers vs surround sound.

Does everyone have surround sound on their TVs? This point is invalid for most people.

MOST people have a far better setup for their TV than their computer which is why consoles are more popular.  If the experience was the same AND you got better graphics then PC would be destroying consoles.  Why do I keep reading about how PC gaming is dying?

This has been said for ages, and guess what? it never happens. See pic below.

I also never said anything about dev tools, I know games are designed on PCs, but the development push is GENERALLY towards the console version.  That is how the controls are optimised. If you think it's all about list wars then that's your view, but I disgree.  Most people prefer to play on consoles.

How do you know this? Have you done a survey of the numbers of PC gamers? Have you seen the number of developers that produce PC games? It's far more than for all consoles combined. Only the richest of devs/publishers can afford to release for the consoles and even then they nearly always release a PC version.

30 million steam users vs 85 millions Wiis, 51 millions 360 and 46 million PS3s.  It's still no contest.

30 million active Steam accounts (and growing) is not representative of the entirety of PC gaming. It only represents a fraction of PC gamers. It would be like saying only people with Wii motion should be counted as Wii gamers, or that the 11 million WoW players are representative of all PC gamers. There are still a lot of other services (like GFWL, Battlenet, GOG etc.) on top of offline gamers, MMO players, etc.

You still failed in your argument.

"Killzone 3 might be played by more people with a DS 3, but we all know that the best way to play it is by a sharpshooter"

We all know that?  The game isn't even out yet.  Stop with the hyperbole.

Move is to PC version of console exclusives as a controller is the 360.  It's very consistent.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation in your post. Also, I'm not sure how your comparison relates in any way to Move and the PS3. The analogy makes no sense.

Oh, and:

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-features/49818-epic-blames-piracy-for-the-decline-of-pc-gaming

"Epic boss Mike Capps believes rampant software piracy is to blame for the noticeable decline of PC gaming and the rise of the console as a lucrative platform."

So it's your opinion the majority of people prefer to game sitting at their computer?  I disagree.  Unless you're talking about Facebook games.



daroamer said:
Scoobes said:
daroamer said:

How is it remotely the same?

Keyboard and mouse vs gamepad.

And the fact you can attach any controller on a PC, including 360 (officially) and PS3 (unofficially) controllers.

20something inch monitor vs big screen TV.

Close up meaning you see far more detail.

Couch vs office chair.

Or laptop?

Stereo computer speakers vs surround sound.

Does everyone have surround sound on their TVs? This point is invalid for most people.

MOST people have a far better setup for their TV than their computer which is why consoles are more popular.  If the experience was the same AND you got better graphics then PC would be destroying consoles.  Why do I keep reading about how PC gaming is dying?

This has been said for ages, and guess what? it never happens. See pic below.

I also never said anything about dev tools, I know games are designed on PCs, but the development push is GENERALLY towards the console version.  That is how the controls are optimised. If you think it's all about list wars then that's your view, but I disgree.  Most people prefer to play on consoles.

How do you know this? Have you done a survey of the numbers of PC gamers? Have you seen the number of developers that produce PC games? It's far more than for all consoles combined. Only the richest of devs/publishers can afford to release for the consoles and even then they nearly always release a PC version.

30 million steam users vs 85 millions Wiis, 51 millions 360 and 46 million PS3s.  It's still no contest.

30 million active Steam accounts (and growing) is not representative of the entirety of PC gaming. It only represents a fraction of PC gamers. It would be like saying only people with Wii motion should be counted as Wii gamers, or that the 11 million WoW players are representative of all PC gamers. There are still a lot of other services (like GFWL, Battlenet, GOG etc.) on top of offline gamers, MMO players, etc.

You still failed in your argument.

"Killzone 3 might be played by more people with a DS 3, but we all know that the best way to play it is by a sharpshooter"

We all know that?  The game isn't even out yet.  Stop with the hyperbole.

Move is to PC version of console exclusives as a controller is the 360.  It's very consistent.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation in your post. Also, I'm not sure how your comparison relates in any way to Move and the PS3. The analogy makes no sense.

Oh, and:

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-features/49818-epic-blames-piracy-for-the-decline-of-pc-gaming

"Epic boss Mike Capps believes rampant software piracy is to blame for the noticeable decline of PC gaming and the rise of the console as a lucrative platform."

So it's your opinion the majority of people prefer to game sitting at their computer?  I disagree.  Unless you're talking about Facebook games.

This is the problem with current stats: None of them track digital downloads where the majority of the market and consumers have moved to. The retail space have gradually reduced the PC space whilst the online and digital space has increased greatly. I'll point you to this indie developer talking about the distribution speficially on Steam vs Retail:

"I remember fondly the meeting in my office with a red-faced publisher who was explaining why their initial order from a major retailer for one of our new releases was just 30 units. At the time I had my browser open on the Steam product data page, which updates sales numbers every few minutes.

“They have taken one unit for each of their top 30 stores” he told me. “There is just no demand from their customers”.

I glanced at my screen, hit refresh and advised him: “In the time it’s taken you to tell me that there is no demand, Steam has sold 45 units”.

http://www.mcvuk.com/features/808/OPINION-Retail-vs-Steam

This is only on Steam. There are many other digital distribution models such as GFWL and GOG as well as publishers own stores (e.g. EA Store, Battlenet). Nowhere tracks the sales online and as Valve are an Ltd. they never need to release their figures (and they never do-so publicly).

Another thing to take into account is whether this is revenue or profit. If its only revenue we know the costs to release a console game are greater than your average PC game (thanks heavily to digital distribution). And I assume it's not taking into account MMO revenue? The majority of monetary transactions, whether they're digital retail games or subscriptions or microtransactions are now done online. 

Also, at the end of the link you posted:

"Most publishers I'm speaking to right now think their money's going to be shifting back to PC and away from traditional consoles, just because folks are in that mode of wanting to spend a little bit of time every now and then, and paying money to save time because there's so much media competing for it."

and

"It's interesting that piracy seems to be doing a lot of 'killing' and yet Valve, still the last bastion of PC gaming, seems to have no problem selling its games, or indeed any of the popular games on Steam," wrote Sterling.

Finally, wtf with the website and those soft porn ads at the bottom?! My girlfriend in in the room :P (she didn't notice though) :D



Try this on for a source of revenue / market share: http://www.newzoo.com/press/NewzooTotalConsumerSpend2010.pdf



Tease.