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Forums - General - Obama's approval rating back in the positive

badgenome said:
binary solo said:

Nothing like a tragedy to give a politician an opportunity to look statesmanly. Not saying that Obama used Giffords' shooting for cynical political purposes, what he did was totally appropriate and right, and I'm sure Obama was sincere about what he said. But there's no doubt in my mind that Obama and his circle of advisors and speechwriters knew this was an opportunity to make up some lost ground with the electorate.

The good he's done himself personally from this will be short lived though. People will get back to their own personal and social problems soon, and unless they see positive action and movement in the right direction things will slide back again.

The rebound began before the shooting, and polls in the immediate aftermath show little to no change from before. This is probably more attributable to voter anger dissipating in the wake of the elections and Obama giving his base something to cheer for with the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Interesting. The immediate aftermath polls possibly didn't include his speech? I would expect a statisically significant bounce after that speech. But yes, the things he (Congress) managed to achieve after the election have done more for him than pretty much everything he did in the past 2 years.

These next 2 years could either be a poisoned chalice for the Republicans, or it could be the final nail in the Obama presidency coffin. The Republicans have the harder strategic road I think. The way the Republicans came out swinging after the election with all this aggressive talk of obstructing Obama at every turn looked like they might end up handing Obama another 4 years in office. If the Republicans fight Obama tooth and nail then Obama could make it look like a sore winner House, and an obstructionist Senate minority. If the Republicans end up working with Obama to get things done, then Obama looks like a president who can work well with Congress.

The Republicans need to essentially close down the presidency without coming off looking like the bad guys. Trouble is they need to convince the Senate to pass House Bills/measures for the president to get a look at them and given the Senate is still majority Democratic the Bills that get to Obama for signing aren't going to be so right wing that Obama will be vetoing all over the place. More than likely Obama will work with the moderates in Senate to water down hard right stuff coming out of the House into centre right stuff, which the president can sign without suffering too much damage with his base support. The fight will really be on when it comes to passing funding measures for things like the new Food Safety law. Starving the administration of funds is a possibly winning tactic for the Republicans, though it also comes with its electoral risks. With the Food safety law every foodborne illness outbreak that happens while the Republicans are blocking funding will weaken their position. And Foodborne illness outbreaks happen commonly enough that the obstructionist position could really blow up.

The game, as they say, is afoot.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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homer said:
toastboy44562 said:
homer said:
toastboy44562 said:
homer said:
toastboy44562 said:

bush made so many mistakes. the BEST that any president can do is to cut losses. mabye in 30 years we'll recover back into the clinton days


What do you have against Bush? What did he do that warrants such dislike towards him? What did Clinton do right? Didn't he cheat on his wife? That doesn't seem very good,

Bush put us in debt. Clinton had us in a surplus. Bush got innocent americans/Iraqians killed in iraq for no reason. Bus allowed so many of quality american jobs go overseas into places like china where they make shitty goods. And who gives a shit if clinton cheated on his wife? doesnt make clinton a bad president. Conservatives just use that on clinton to make him look bad because clinton did such a great job (Yes I know clinton didn't have that many challenges but still, he was great). sorry if it's hard to reed i need to put in contacts

We had debt in Clinton's presidency, didn't we? If I am not mistaken, he added debt to the deficit, just not as much as Bush. So, the president has the ability to declare war, without congress's consent? I did not know that. It was Bush's fault that China managed to get many American jobs? I just thought we could not compete with China considering they can manage to pay their workers less, but I guess I am mistaken, or am I? If he cheated on his wife, I will think a lot less of him. Also, didn't he commit purgury(lying in court if I am not mistaken)? Why did he lie? Also, didn't he leave Somalia in a mess after a quick occupation/invasion? Clinton killed many innocent somalians and americans? Didn't he also give nuclear material to North Korea, or am I mistaken? Does that seem like a wise idea, because it didn't seem to wise to me.



Im sure he added debt in the beginning, but we were on the track to make some serious money. Bush recommended to go to iraq, at the a lot of the congress was his buddies. So he could basically do whatever he wanted within reason. He could have controlled how many jobs went overseas by trying to enforce different tarifs and being more liberal and trying to get other countries to trade with us more. I dont know about the rest personally you could be right.


Overall during his presidency, he did add to the deficit though, or am I mistaken? Clinton took us to Somalia, and left abruptly throwing that country into chaos, if I am not mistaken. Why doesn't Obama do the things you speak of? Then we could stop the loss of more jobs, and perhaps court other former American factories to come back.

yes but he inherited a deficit and turned it into a surplus.  clinton's overall debt was very small, bush's debt was insane, obama's debt might become worse.  clinton sent tons of jobs overseas too, he passed NAFTA, working conditions got worse.  It was a strong economy at the time though.  He does get too much credit, the economy probably would have been great anyway.  Basically clinton was not as bad as other presidents in recent times, i don't think he was great by any means.  Presidents still have to bow their heads to corporations and it's hard to blame them, they wouldn't be where they are without doing that.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

whatever said:
mrstickball said:
Wagram said:

He couldn't possibly be any worse than George Bush.

Yes, Obama could be a lot worse. He's got at least 2 more years to continue to screw up the country. However, with a split house and senate, its unlikely that he'll continue to do things that will hurt America worse than his first 2 years.

Now, if your wondering what I'm talking about, before people start attacking me:

  • Stimulus bill
  • Obamacare
  • Continuing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (in the case of Afghanistan, more soldiers have died under his watch than at any point during Bush's presidency)
  • Increased regulation of the economy

Those things will have long-term effects on the future of America, and they are not good things that Obama has done. Hopefully, he can turn these things around, or America will be in an even more dire mess than when he came into office.

Hmmm, so the only bad thing on your list is the continuing of the wars.  After what we've been through due to deregulation, you can't be serious that increased regulation is a bad thing.

GW's policies were just the continuation of what started under Reagan and continued under Bush I and Clinton.  They were destined to fail, and they did, fantastically.  Obama hasn't done enough to correct this.  Until we get serious about regulation, we are headed for an even worse situation not too far down the line.

20 years of unprecedented prosperity then 3 years of an economic down turn which is still better than where the economy started... I'll take that every time thank you very much. You can keep your go no where heavily regulated economy. 



binary solo said:
badgenome said:
binary solo said:

Nothing like a tragedy to give a politician an opportunity to look statesmanly. Not saying that Obama used Giffords' shooting for cynical political purposes, what he did was totally appropriate and right, and I'm sure Obama was sincere about what he said. But there's no doubt in my mind that Obama and his circle of advisors and speechwriters knew this was an opportunity to make up some lost ground with the electorate.

The good he's done himself personally from this will be short lived though. People will get back to their own personal and social problems soon, and unless they see positive action and movement in the right direction things will slide back again.

The rebound began before the shooting, and polls in the immediate aftermath show little to no change from before. This is probably more attributable to voter anger dissipating in the wake of the elections and Obama giving his base something to cheer for with the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Interesting. The immediate aftermath polls possibly didn't include his speech? I would expect a statisically significant bounce after that speech. But yes, the things he (Congress) managed to achieve after the election have done more for him than pretty much everything he did in the past 2 years.

These next 2 years could either be a poisoned chalice for the Republicans, or it could be the final nail in the Obama presidency coffin. The Republicans have the harder strategic road I think. The way the Republicans came out swinging after the election with all this aggressive talk of obstructing Obama at every turn looked like they might end up handing Obama another 4 years in office. If the Republicans fight Obama tooth and nail then Obama could make it look like a sore winner House, and an obstructionist Senate minority. If the Republicans end up working with Obama to get things done, then Obama looks like a president who can work well with Congress.

The Republicans need to essentially close down the presidency without coming off looking like the bad guys. Trouble is they need to convince the Senate to pass House Bills/measures for the president to get a look at them and given the Senate is still majority Democratic the Bills that get to Obama for signing aren't going to be so right wing that Obama will be vetoing all over the place. More than likely Obama will work with the moderates in Senate to water down hard right stuff coming out of the House into centre right stuff, which the president can sign without suffering too much damage with his base support. The fight will really be on when it comes to passing funding measures for things like the new Food Safety law. Starving the administration of funds is a possibly winning tactic for the Republicans, though it also comes with its electoral risks. With the Food safety law every foodborne illness outbreak that happens while the Republicans are blocking funding will weaken their position. And Foodborne illness outbreaks happen commonly enough that the obstructionist position could really blow up.

The game, as they say, is afoot.

There were polls taken right after the speech, but they didn't show a significant improvement. It was a good speech, probably the best I've ever seen from him, but it just didn't really change anyone's opinion.

I'd disagree on a couple of things:

First, the Republicans had historic wins in November despite all the screaming that they were obstructionist bastards. As P.J. O'Rourke put it, the public wanted a restraining order against the Democrats. Now that we have a split Congress, the Republicans will have to assume more responsibility for governing, but it's going to take all of Obama and the media's messaging power to successfully brand Republicans as running the show with a Democratic Senate and a Democratic White House.

Starving the administration of funds is going to be a tricky bit of business, though. For example, Republicans should aim for outright repeal of Obamacare. They won't get it, of course, but it will help keep voters on their side and it gives them an issue against Democrats in competitive districts in 2012 by putting them on record. After that fails, I really don't think they should try to tamper with it too much. The thing is absolute poison in my opinion, and has to be completely replaced. Changing things in a bill that no one has read and no one can explain or comprehend doesn't fix the problem at all, but defunding it only allows Obama to say, "Ah ha! All these problems are because the Republicans didn't allow us to implement the good things!"

On the other hand, if Obama decides to override Congress (the old Democratic Congress, that is) and bring Gitmo detainees to the U.S., and Republicans block the funds somehow... that will go just swimmingly. People are totally opposed to that shit, and it would be a replay of the Justice Department insisting on trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in NYC. That would be the complete opposite of what Obama wants right now. He's trying to triangulate and hover above the fray, but this would pit him against both parties and the majority of the public, and just make him look completely out of step.

So, yeah, the Republicans do have an uphill battle dethroning Obama in 2012, but I think it's going to be less about how the one Republican chamber of Congress behaves (although they can help or hurt) and more about finding a strong candidate. The one guy who would almost certainly cream Obama is Chris Christie, but he flat out refuses to run. Sucks for me; I would kill to see those debates. The rest of the likely candidates are a big, fat "meh" at this point.



johnsobas said:
homer said:
toastboy44562 said:



Im sure he added debt in the beginning, but we were on the track to make some serious money. Bush recommended to go to iraq, at the a lot of the congress was his buddies. So he could basically do whatever he wanted within reason. He could have controlled how many jobs went overseas by trying to enforce different tarifs and being more liberal and trying to get other countries to trade with us more. I dont know about the rest personally you could be right.


Overall during his presidency, he did add to the deficit though, or am I mistaken? Clinton took us to Somalia, and left abruptly throwing that country into chaos, if I am not mistaken. Why doesn't Obama do the things you speak of? Then we could stop the loss of more jobs, and perhaps court other former American factories to come back.

yes but he inherited a deficit and turned it into a surplus.  clinton's overall debt was very small, bush's debt was insane, obama's debt might become worse.  clinton sent tons of jobs overseas too, he passed NAFTA, working conditions got worse.  It was a strong economy at the time though.  He does get too much credit, the economy probably would have been great anyway.  Basically clinton was not as bad as other presidents in recent times, i don't think he was great by any means.  Presidents still have to bow their heads to corporations and it's hard to blame them, they wouldn't be where they are without doing that.

Why would they pass NAFTA anyways? Doesn't that just encourage companies to move to Mexico, for cheaper wages? I agree with you though. It seems democrats do give too much credit to Clinton, and hate too much on Bush, while Republicans tend to hate on Clinton and act like Bush never existed lol.



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -My good friend Mark Aurelius

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toastboy44562 said:
homer said:


1.) So, theoretically, if I was the president of the USA, during a golden age, and did absolutely nothing, but the country prospered anyways, would that make me a great?

2.)What if I became a president during a depression, but managed to make the USA better? Which president would you consider better? One man changed america for the better, while the other did nothing, but inherited a prosperous nation. The people had a better time under my presidancy,although I did nothing.

3.)Neither screwed up, is that what truly matters?

 

1.) You would be considered great, that is why many presidents get re-elected

2.) I would consider a president that has changed america for the better during a depression better. For instance if obama expanded many buisnesses in america just as clinton did I would consider obama better. even though the economy was better overall better off during clinton's age.

3.) In the eyes of a lot of people, as long as a president doesn't totally screw up he is a success.

1.)You are probably right. If people were happy during my presidency, and I did nothing, I would probably be re elected, but I was not asking for the theoretical opinion of what we think the American people would choose, I was asking for yours.

2.) Agreed.

3.)  Yet again, that is probably what the general population believes, but is that what you believe?



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -My good friend Mark Aurelius

homer said:
johnsobas said:
homer said:
toastboy44562 said:



Im sure he added debt in the beginning, but we were on the track to make some serious money. Bush recommended to go to iraq, at the a lot of the congress was his buddies. So he could basically do whatever he wanted within reason. He could have controlled how many jobs went overseas by trying to enforce different tarifs and being more liberal and trying to get other countries to trade with us more. I dont know about the rest personally you could be right.


Overall during his presidency, he did add to the deficit though, or am I mistaken? Clinton took us to Somalia, and left abruptly throwing that country into chaos, if I am not mistaken. Why doesn't Obama do the things you speak of? Then we could stop the loss of more jobs, and perhaps court other former American factories to come back.

yes but he inherited a deficit and turned it into a surplus.  clinton's overall debt was very small, bush's debt was insane, obama's debt might become worse.  clinton sent tons of jobs overseas too, he passed NAFTA, working conditions got worse.  It was a strong economy at the time though.  He does get too much credit, the economy probably would have been great anyway.  Basically clinton was not as bad as other presidents in recent times, i don't think he was great by any means.  Presidents still have to bow their heads to corporations and it's hard to blame them, they wouldn't be where they are without doing that.

Why would they pass NAFTA anyways? Doesn't that just encourage companies to move to Mexico, for cheaper wages? I agree with you though. It seems democrats do give too much credit to Clinton, and hate too much on Bush, while Republicans tend to hate on Clinton and act like Bush never existed lol.


A generally accepted principle of economics is that free trade benefits both parties; and to explain it in a very simple way, trade between an advanced economy (US) and a developing economy (Mexico) enables the developing economy to rapidly grow by producing inexpensive unsophisticated goods/services while the advanced economy regains manufacturing/development capacity to build more sophisticated and advanced goods/services.

The problem the United States has faced over the past couple of decades is that their excess production capacity is really poorly suited to the advanced development jobs “of the future”. Once again to simplify this, the high-school dropout who gets drunk and high during his lunch hour may be able to assemble toasters, but no electronics company in their right mind would hire him to work to develop the precise components that make up modern goods; and he certainly lacks the education to work in the research and development of these products.



homer said:
toastboy44562 said:
homer said:


1.) So, theoretically, if I was the president of the USA, during a golden age, and did absolutely nothing, but the country prospered anyways, would that make me a great?

2.)What if I became a president during a depression, but managed to make the USA better? Which president would you consider better? One man changed america for the better, while the other did nothing, but inherited a prosperous nation. The people had a better time under my presidancy,although I did nothing.

3.)Neither screwed up, is that what truly matters?

 

1.) You would be considered great, that is why many presidents get re-elected

2.) I would consider a president that has changed america for the better during a depression better. For instance if obama expanded many buisnesses in america just as clinton did I would consider obama better. even though the economy was better overall better off during clinton's age.

3.) In the eyes of a lot of people, as long as a president doesn't totally screw up he is a success.

1.)You are probably right. If people were happy during my presidency, and I did nothing, I would probably be re elected, but I was not asking for the theoretical opinion of what we think the American people would choose, I was asking for yours.

2.) Agreed.

3.)  Yet again, that is probably what the general population believes, but is that what you believe?


1.) what i believe? well as long as america sees a tiny bit of advancement and growth and the president did nothing i would re-elect them in no time. Im conservative but if things need to be fixed then they need to be fixed.

3.) I guess i believe it. For instance if america was doing great and I did nothing and it kept going great I would consider myself a great president. because if i changed anything it might've made things worse



binary solo said:
badgenome said:
binary solo said:

Nothing like a tragedy to give a politician an opportunity to look statesmanly. Not saying that Obama used Giffords' shooting for cynical political purposes, what he did was totally appropriate and right, and I'm sure Obama was sincere about what he said. But there's no doubt in my mind that Obama and his circle of advisors and speechwriters knew this was an opportunity to make up some lost ground with the electorate.

The good he's done himself personally from this will be short lived though. People will get back to their own personal and social problems soon, and unless they see positive action and movement in the right direction things will slide back again.

The rebound began before the shooting, and polls in the immediate aftermath show little to no change from before. This is probably more attributable to voter anger dissipating in the wake of the elections and Obama giving his base something to cheer for with the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Interesting. The immediate aftermath polls possibly didn't include his speech? I would expect a statisically significant bounce after that speech. But yes, the things he (Congress) managed to achieve after the election have done more for him than pretty much everything he did in the past 2 years.

These next 2 years could either be a poisoned chalice for the Republicans, or it could be the final nail in the Obama presidency coffin. The Republicans have the harder strategic road I think. The way the Republicans came out swinging after the election with all this aggressive talk of obstructing Obama at every turn looked like they might end up handing Obama another 4 years in office. If the Republicans fight Obama tooth and nail then Obama could make it look like a sore winner House, and an obstructionist Senate minority. If the Republicans end up working with Obama to get things done, then Obama looks like a president who can work well with Congress.

The Republicans need to essentially close down the presidency without coming off looking like the bad guys. Trouble is they need to convince the Senate to pass House Bills/measures for the president to get a look at them and given the Senate is still majority Democratic the Bills that get to Obama for signing aren't going to be so right wing that Obama will be vetoing all over the place. More than likely Obama will work with the moderates in Senate to water down hard right stuff coming out of the House into centre right stuff, which the president can sign without suffering too much damage with his base support. The fight will really be on when it comes to passing funding measures for things like the new Food Safety law. Starving the administration of funds is a possibly winning tactic for the Republicans, though it also comes with its electoral risks. With the Food safety law every foodborne illness outbreak that happens while the Republicans are blocking funding will weaken their position. And Foodborne illness outbreaks happen commonly enough that the obstructionist position could really blow up.

The game, as they say, is afoot.


Yeah, the Republicans in general just need to find a way to convey to the public that "hey even though we have  a majority in the house, the democrats are still in control with the Senate and the Presidency."

I don't think it's really in the house Republicans best interest to be obstructionary, but do the opposite and pass a LOT of stuff that they know has no chance of passing in the Senate, and some things they can get passed in the Senate that Obama will veto.

That's why they are pushing ahead with the healthcare repeal afterall, knowing that it won't pass the senate and even if it did they don't have enough for an override.



badgenome said:
binary solo said:
badgenome said:
binary solo said:

Nothing like a tragedy to give a politician an opportunity to look statesmanly. Not saying that Obama used Giffords' shooting for cynical political purposes, what he did was totally appropriate and right, and I'm sure Obama was sincere about what he said. But there's no doubt in my mind that Obama and his circle of advisors and speechwriters knew this was an opportunity to make up some lost ground with the electorate.

The good he's done himself personally from this will be short lived though. People will get back to their own personal and social problems soon, and unless they see positive action and movement in the right direction things will slide back again.

The rebound began before the shooting, and polls in the immediate aftermath show little to no change from before. This is probably more attributable to voter anger dissipating in the wake of the elections and Obama giving his base something to cheer for with the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Interesting. The immediate aftermath polls possibly didn't include his speech? I would expect a statisically significant bounce after that speech. But yes, the things he (Congress) managed to achieve after the election have done more for him than pretty much everything he did in the past 2 years.

These next 2 years could either be a poisoned chalice for the Republicans, or it could be the final nail in the Obama presidency coffin. The Republicans have the harder strategic road I think. The way the Republicans came out swinging after the election with all this aggressive talk of obstructing Obama at every turn looked like they might end up handing Obama another 4 years in office. If the Republicans fight Obama tooth and nail then Obama could make it look like a sore winner House, and an obstructionist Senate minority. If the Republicans end up working with Obama to get things done, then Obama looks like a president who can work well with Congress.

The Republicans need to essentially close down the presidency without coming off looking like the bad guys. Trouble is they need to convince the Senate to pass House Bills/measures for the president to get a look at them and given the Senate is still majority Democratic the Bills that get to Obama for signing aren't going to be so right wing that Obama will be vetoing all over the place. More than likely Obama will work with the moderates in Senate to water down hard right stuff coming out of the House into centre right stuff, which the president can sign without suffering too much damage with his base support. The fight will really be on when it comes to passing funding measures for things like the new Food Safety law. Starving the administration of funds is a possibly winning tactic for the Republicans, though it also comes with its electoral risks. With the Food safety law every foodborne illness outbreak that happens while the Republicans are blocking funding will weaken their position. And Foodborne illness outbreaks happen commonly enough that the obstructionist position could really blow up.

The game, as they say, is afoot.

There were polls taken right after the speech, but they didn't show a significant improvement. It was a good speech, probably the best I've ever seen from him, but it just didn't really change anyone's opinion.

I'd guess because nobody saw it and it was covered poorly.

I didn't watch it and had no idea till this morning that he actually chided both sides for pushing the blame on this on both sides.   All I heard covered was the call for civility.  Which even when you throw in a "both sides" message in, often comes off as a wink and a nudge type manuever.