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Forums - Sales - NPD 2010: Game Sales Even, PS3 Software Up 32%

LivingMetal said:
Kynes said:
4k1x3r said:
AussieGecko said:
haxxiy said:
AussieGecko said:


Xbox360 had a slim and Kinect... your turn

PS3 could have another slim and a $100 pricecut. Your turn again, sir.


From last reports isnt sony bleeding enough money from this console, another 100 price cut wouldnt be a smart move. Slim would be rather early and would seem a rather knee jerk reaction, you again :)

Too bad they announced they're not losing money on PS3 for a while now...

You can sell a console at higher than manufacturing cost but lose money. You know, you have to pay a lot more things than only the cost of the hardware... There is a big difference between gross profit and operating profit.


So with the bigger picture involved, is Sony loosing money on the PS3?

No.

@Kynes thanks for reminding me that but my studies are all about Business so I'm not clueless about that. At least I think... When Sony says PS3 costs XXX$ to produce it's an average price that counts packaging, electricity, shipments etc things in it, so when they say they don't lose money, they really don't lose money...

The only thing left bleeding the company is the PSN and maybe the video games division, which if I remember is often in red. (I dunno, their games sell well but... something is eating the money there).



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4k1x3r said:
LivingMetal said:
Kynes said:
4k1x3r said:
AussieGecko said:
haxxiy said:
AussieGecko said:


Xbox360 had a slim and Kinect... your turn

PS3 could have another slim and a $100 pricecut. Your turn again, sir.


From last reports isnt sony bleeding enough money from this console, another 100 price cut wouldnt be a smart move. Slim would be rather early and would seem a rather knee jerk reaction, you again :)

Too bad they announced they're not losing money on PS3 for a while now...

You can sell a console at higher than manufacturing cost but lose money. You know, you have to pay a lot more things than only the cost of the hardware... There is a big difference between gross profit and operating profit.


So with the bigger picture involved, is Sony loosing money on the PS3?

No.

@Kynes thanks for reminding me that but my studies are all about Business so I'm not clueless about that. At least I think... When Sony says PS3 costs XXX$ to produce it's an average price that counts packaging, electricity, shipments etc things in it, so when they say they don't lose money, they really don't lose money...

The only thing left bleeding the company is the PSN and maybe the video games division, which if I remember is often in red. (I dunno, their games sell well but... something is eating the money there).


That's what I figured.



Nsanity said:

I don't mean to go off topic, but why mention LittleBigPlanet 2 Metacritic score in a response to NPD?

Presumably, for the same reason they mentioned in November that they'd seen a month over month increase from October.



AussieGecko said:
haxxiy said:
kowenicki said:


20 m PS3s?

no chance. 


So there was no chance of >14m X360s on it's fifth year.


Xbox360 had a slim and Kinect... your turn

Ps3 just had quality games and it still beat 360 last year. A ps3 price cut would be huge, although I doubt big enough to help the ps3 pass 20 millon in a year. Of course, this year we have to see how kinect pans out in stimulating console sales.



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -My good friend Mark Aurelius

4k1x3r said:
LivingMetal said:
Kynes said:
4k1x3r said:
AussieGecko said:
haxxiy said:
AussieGecko said:


Xbox360 had a slim and Kinect... your turn

PS3 could have another slim and a $100 pricecut. Your turn again, sir.


From last reports isnt sony bleeding enough money from this console, another 100 price cut wouldnt be a smart move. Slim would be rather early and would seem a rather knee jerk reaction, you again :)

Too bad they announced they're not losing money on PS3 for a while now...

You can sell a console at higher than manufacturing cost but lose money. You know, you have to pay a lot more things than only the cost of the hardware... There is a big difference between gross profit and operating profit.


So with the bigger picture involved, is Sony loosing money on the PS3?

No.

@Kynes thanks for reminding me that but my studies are all about Business so I'm not clueless about that. At least I think... When Sony says PS3 costs XXX$ to produce it's an average price that counts packaging, electricity, shipments etc things in it, so when they say they don't lose money, they really don't lose money...

The only thing left bleeding the company is the PSN and maybe the video games division, which if I remember is often in red. (I dunno, their games sell well but... something is eating the money there).


Then explain to me how they can, with all the first party games they sell, all the reneuve from third party sales, breaking even (if they really are doing so, something that I don't believe) with the PS3, earning lots of money with PS2 and PSP hardware... still be in red if you aggregate the last three quarters (last quarter we have data they were ~55 million dollars in black, taking into consideration that Vaio had the back to school period, where they sell tons of notebooks, it seems that PS division still bleed money), and almost 5 billion dollars lost since FY 2007.

The most plausible explanation is that they are talking about breaking even only considering the hardware, not the operation cost.



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BS PS3 don't sell software.

Anyway the quarter fiscal release is likely to show a lot of meltdonws here.



Kynes said:


Then explain to me how they can, with all the first party games they sell, all the reneuve from third party sales, breaking even (if they really are doing so, something that I don't believe) with the PS3, earning lots of money with PS2 and PSP hardware... still be in red if you aggregate the last three quarters (last quarter we have data they were ~55 million dollars in black, taking into consideration that Vaio had the back to school period, where they sell tons of notebooks, it seems that PS division still bleed money), and almost 5 billion dollars lost since FY 2007.

The most plausible explanation is that they are talking about breaking even only considering the hardware, not the operation cost.

R&D, both for PSP2 and for the expansion of the Sony Online Network (ie, PSN making its way to every piece of Sony hardware), for which they have an 11 year roadmap over which it'll be phased into existance.

The PS3 is part of their larger division of networked devices, and this network is an enormous undertaking that is likely burning through the most revenue at this point in time.



Kynes said:
4k1x3r said:

No.

@Kynes thanks for reminding me that but my studies are all about Business so I'm not clueless about that. At least I think... When Sony says PS3 costs XXX$ to produce it's an average price that counts packaging, electricity, shipments etc things in it, so when they say they don't lose money, they really don't lose money...

The only thing left bleeding the company is the PSN and maybe the video games division, which if I remember is often in red. (I dunno, their games sell well but... something is eating the money there).


Then explain to me how they can, with all the first party games they sell, all the reneuve from third party sales, breaking even (if they really are doing so, something that I don't believe) with the PS3, earning lots of money with PS2 and PSP hardware... still be in red if you aggregate the last three quarters (last quarter we have data they were ~80 million dollars in black, taking into consideration that Vaio had the back to school period, where they sell tons of notebooks, it seems that PS division still bleed money), and almost 5 billion dollars lost since FY 2007.

The most plausible explanation is that they are talking about breaking even only considering the hardware, not the operation cost.

Damn, I'm tired of explaining things that should have been understood from the first read. PSN is in red and by a huge amount, at least it was even deeper in red before the PSN Plus, now I guess it's starting to slow down.

They also lose money on software, because they spend too much money on things I partly don't understand (new engines? I know that Sony has a permanent team of 8/10 people who develop features and engines, the same team that did the MLAA. New projects? Probably, Sony has several exclusives being in development so it might be logical for them to spend more than they earn, software expansion ALOT OF R&D, we see several patent every year). And here I'm talking about First Party software.

And to make it clear, what I said was not an assumption but an affirmation... It's always this way and I don't think Sony is thinking any different than 99.9999999% of the companies out there. When a company need to know the average production cost of their product, then they take EVERYTHING into account. It appears completely logical for me because I'm seeing case like these everyday, but I'm tired to explain everything in detail. Just keep in mind that Sony could care less if it only included hardware cost only.

Edit: Ty makingmusic, what you say is complementary to what I try to explain.



makingmusic476 said:
Kynes said:


Then explain to me how they can, with all the first party games they sell, all the reneuve from third party sales, breaking even (if they really are doing so, something that I don't believe) with the PS3, earning lots of money with PS2 and PSP hardware... still be in red if you aggregate the last three quarters (last quarter we have data they were ~55 million dollars in black, taking into consideration that Vaio had the back to school period, where they sell tons of notebooks, it seems that PS division still bleed money), and almost 5 billion dollars lost since FY 2007.

The most plausible explanation is that they are talking about breaking even only considering the hardware, not the operation cost.

R&D, both for PSP2 and for the expansion of the Sony Online Network (ie, PSN making its way to every piece of Sony hardware), for which they have an 11 year roadmap over which it'll be phased into existance.

The PS3 is part of their larger division of networked devices, and this network is an enormous undertaking that is likely burning through the most revenue at this point in time.


If this is true, then they have a big management problem. If they want to fight iTunes, Spotify and other free/paid streaming services, google/apple/netflix/whatever tv service... they are going to be eons in red.



I would actually assume SCE makes a profit overall on their game development investments.

Though any third party exlusivity deals they may make (DLC, etc.) would obviously not show any immediately discernable gains.