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Forums - General Discussion - Guess who wants to legalize pot?!?

Ferryarthur said:
TX109 said:

brings me back to health class: "Pot is one of the worst things you can possibly do to yourself! 1 hit and your automatically hooked forever and will slowly melt away into a useless pile of diseased flesh"...im pretty much summarizing my health teacher and the school nurse's words. of course, this is the same nurse who believes that if you drink even one beer in a month, your an alcoholic...

pot will become legal(probably with a little hitch that says you have to be so-so years old to do it) and everybody will do it for a year. then most will stop because it wont be as fun since it isnt illegal. i personally wont smoke it. smoking is gross. but good for those who will get a kick out of this.


It will actually grow, and it will attract drug tourists. I live in the country where weed is legal, more or less. Drug dealers will get a harder life and start to deal in heavy shit or find a new job. Kids will get their older friends to get the drugs for them. That's if they will allow shops to sell it at least. If it's just the plants, It won't change a thing. Now people smoke it everywhere, in front of school, in their cars. Everywhere, It's like the paradise of being high here. But it didn't help this country much, they even want to reverse it a bit.

Anything is better than the drug war that is currently occuring in Mexico. When the Mexican government started cracking down on drugs all hell went lose. I have family that lives along the US border and none of them will cross into Ciudad Juerez from El Paso becasue Americans are not safe. The violence is even bleeding over to the US and would be put to end if Marijuana was taken out of the hands of the blackmarket.



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http://www.cannabisnews.com/

Here is a website that has tons of news articles on marijuana, medical MJ and other drug related articles. The articles are both pro and con for marijuana legalization so it is balanced. The articles mostly only concern the United States, but there are some global news. It gets new articles everyday so I hope people can be more informed by visiting this site.

I'm not sure if this link will work, but heres the site http://www.cannabisnews.com/



chocoloco said:
Galaki said:

It will remain illegal. Big pharmas will ensure it.

No it is already medicine in 15 states and the district of columbia so it is already taking money away from drug companies. Big business would probably quickly jump on the idea of legalizing the drug because there is tons capital to be gained from it.


No no. You got it backward.

They want to keep it illegal but they themselves have the rights to sell them as medicine. That way, they can keep a high margin of profit.

As soon as you legalize it and people can homegrown their "medicine", them big Pharmas aren't making money from selling "illegal" medicine anymore.



Galaki said:
chocoloco said:
Galaki said:

It will remain illegal. Big pharmas will ensure it.

No it is already medicine in 15 states and the district of columbia so it is already taking money away from drug companies. Big business would probably quickly jump on the idea of legalizing the drug because there is tons capital to be gained from it.


No no. You got it backward.

They want to keep it illegal but they themselves have the rights to sell them as medicine. That way, they can keep a high margin of profit.

As soon as you legalize it and people can homegrown their "medicine", them big Pharmas aren't making money from selling "illegal" medicine anymore.

Funnny, it probably takes as much money, and effort to make your own booze, yet the majoriity of people buy it and do not brew it. Actually making booze takes little effort if you actually read on the subject.  Yes MJ is easy to grow during the summer month outdoors, but only during the summer months because the plant fruits in late summer and early fall. A once a year crop that can produce mass untities if grown in large amounts. Still most plants are grown under artificial conditions currently either hydroponically or in soil. Still to do this costs a lot of money from buying equipment to running high powered light sources adds up too a lot of money spent, in order to make the most quality product. Overall pot is easy to grow in the summer, but only once a year and believe me I have done it. But in the end I would still buy legal pot and so would most people.



Joelcool7 said:

Maybe Christians are the majority because the US is predominantly Christian. But other countries other religions take the right and left sides.

Thats a fairly offensive view as to what Conservatives are about. But then again neither of us are american. Here in Canada I am Conservative but in the US I would be Democrat. Still I gotta say Conserving our countries laws, history etc...etc.. is really important to me.

But as I said in Canada I'm a card carrying Conservative but in the US I'd be Democrat. I think its sort of hard to stereo type all Conservatives or Democrats into bunchs. Politicians and voters all have their own opinions and people of all faiths and beliefs belong to all sides.

We're talking about the fact that right wingers in the US assume the identity of "Christian right", considering themselves to be the defenders of Christianity (and seemingly not understanding the concept separation of Church and State). It's obvious that there will be no "Christian right" in a predominantly Muslim country, but you can be sure that the right wing in thsoe countires is largely religious, and more often than not promoting theocracies.

It's conservatives who usually give great importnace to religion (I've never heard of a religious left).

As for my view of what conservatoves are about, well I'd say it's a pretty accurate view of conservatism. Note that I did not take into consideration stances on certain local political and economic issues, and simply stated a view about the basic characteristics of a conservative person and his/her personality and way of thinking.

Conservatives want to "conserve", and any "change" they ever want is nothing more than regression to the old days which they view as a mythical time when everything was perfect. Conservatives view that anything new, unknown, different from the status quo is bad, dangerous, evil, and needs to be surpressed and eliminated.

Conservatives don't care about the well-being of people, they care about the well-being of a traditional societal structure which should be maintained at all costs (they view it as a living entity, although it's merely a cultural construct made up by humans), despite the fact that the world is constantly changing (or better yet our knowledge of the world, because despite what conservatives think many things are unknown to us, including the big questions about the world that traditional "wisdom" has not answered, but merely provided made-up answers like religion to make people feel better and more secure), and that we need to awknoledge the changes and adapt to them constantly.

As for the fact that you'd be a Democrat if you lived in the US, well let's just leave political parties out of this. See, a party's ideology depends on that pf the majority of it's members. Democrats used to be very conservative in the past (think 19th century), while current day Repiblicans are nothing like Republicans a century ago. Also, very few mainstream parties in developed countries are as right wind as the Republicans in the US.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sapphi_snake said:
Joelcool7 said:

Maybe Christians are the majority because the US is predominantly Christian. But other countries other religions take the right and left sides.

Thats a fairly offensive view as to what Conservatives are about. But then again neither of us are american. Here in Canada I am Conservative but in the US I would be Democrat. Still I gotta say Conserving our countries laws, history etc...etc.. is really important to me.

But as I said in Canada I'm a card carrying Conservative but in the US I'd be Democrat. I think its sort of hard to stereo type all Conservatives or Democrats into bunchs. Politicians and voters all have their own opinions and people of all faiths and beliefs belong to all sides.

Conservatives want to "conserve", and any "change" they ever want is nothing more than regression to the old days which they view as a mythical time when everything was perfect. Conservatives view that anything new, unknown, different from the status quo is bad, dangerous, evil, and needs to be surpressed and eliminated.

Your partially and mostly right. Conservatives in any shape or form want to conserve the government of the present or recent past. Now depending on which country you live in this could be very good or very bad, or it may not matter to you.

For me here in Canada I love the Government we have now and had in the past. I like our Government health care, our military programs , our welfare system and our diplomatic stances with the world. Thus I am Conservative. The far left NDP and many Liberals want greater privitization of health care, less welfare, changing our military programs etc...etc... Thus why I am not Liberal.

Where as as I said if I were American I'd vote democrat. Why? Because I never liked America the way it was. I believe in stiffer gun control, less military provocations (More talking) , public health care and other things. I may not agree with everything but I'd vote democrat in the States.

This is why I said you can't nescessarily group all Christian's as right wing or all right wingers as Christians. Their are several things worth conserving in all countries well at least most. Just because someone wants to conserve stuff doesn't make them evil, narrow minded or fascist.

As for no Christian left? Obama claims to be Christian. Clinton claimed to be Christian. The leaders of the Liberal Party often claim to be Christian. Infact I can't recal hearing of a Non-Christian leader in the US in the last few decades and they haven't always been right wing.

I know in my area their is a Sihk who ran for the Conservative Party and I know I heard about an Athiest running for the Blue's as well. It has nothing to do with religion, yes religious leaders like to protect their religions cultures, customs and beliefs but other then that you can't just blanket all religious people as conservative or vice versa!



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

Joelcool7 said:

Your partially and mostly right. Conservatives in any shape or form want to conserve the government of the present or recent past. Now depending on which country you live in this could be very good or very bad, or it may not matter to you.

For me here in Canada I love the Government we have now and had in the past. I like our Government health care, our military programs , our welfare system and our diplomatic stances with the world. Thus I am Conservative. The far left NDP and many Liberals want greater privitization of health care, less welfare, changing our military programs etc...etc... Thus why I am not Liberal.

Where as as I said if I were American I'd vote democrat. Why? Because I never liked America the way it was. I believe in stiffer gun control, less military provocations (More talking) , public health care and other things. I may not agree with everything but I'd vote democrat in the States.

This is why I said you can't nescessarily group all Christian's as right wing or all right wingers as Christians. Their are several things worth conserving in all countries well at least most. Just because someone wants to conserve stuff doesn't make them evil, narrow minded or fascist.

As for no Christian left? Obama claims to be Christian. Clinton claimed to be Christian. The leaders of the Liberal Party often claim to be Christian. Infact I can't recal hearing of a Non-Christian leader in the US in the last few decades and they haven't always been right wing.

I know in my area their is a Sihk who ran for the Conservative Party and I know I heard about an Athiest running for the Blue's as well. It has nothing to do with religion, yes religious leaders like to protect their religions cultures, customs and beliefs but other then that you can't just blanket all religious people as conservative or vice versa!

There's a reason why I chose to ignore local political and economic policies. Current day politics blurs everything up.

I was talking about conservative thinking in general, which means idealising a mythical period in the past, when things are seen as having been better, and striving to bring society back to that primitive era (even though it's impossible, as society has changed and can no longer work under that structure), or in other words a regression. Read Plato's Republic to get a better ideea of what conservatism is (and also totalitarianism).

Also, Obama and Clinton would hardly be representatives of politicians who have a Christian agenda (and they're also hardly left wingers by European standards). There's a difference between saying "I'm a Christian" and "we are a Christian nation who has to live by Christian principles and laws, and whomever disagrees is an enemy of the country" like right-wingers like Bush said. Also, from what I've noticed most left wingers are what is called Liberal Christians, who don't hold traditional Christian beliefs (non-Christians are going to hell, gays are evil etc.).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

I don't think he is for legalization exactly. What I think Pat Robertson is for is drastic decriminalization of pot. Let me give you an example,

On October 1, 2010, Governor Schwarzenegger of California signed a bill massively decriminalizing pot possession from a misdemeanor to a $100 civil infraction. Basically, pot possession in California is equivalent to a speeding ticket.

Source: http://www.disinfo.com/2010/10/schwarzenegger-decriminalizes-pot-in-california/

The crux behind this was Prop 19 for the 2010 elections. Prop 19 would have legalized marijuana in California much the same way Prop 215 implemented medical marijuana in California. The enforcement of Prop 19 would have been left up to individual counties and cities.

Here in NorCal where I live, there are a few counties (Butte and others) who have district attorneys (DA) who are very conservative and argue against any dispensary, indoor grows, and outdoor grows in their county citing Federal law as trumping State law.

Anyone who has studied the US Civil War knows the reason behind the Civil War was a long political battle over whether State law could trump Federal law enflamed by the issue of slavery in the territories. During the War of 1812, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island threatened to secede from the United States with the Hartford Convention. In the antebellum era, South Carolina's most famous US Senator, John C. Calhoun, was the biggest proponent for secession and nulllification of Federal law if a State law was passed to nullify Federal law.

Well, the Confederacy lost the US Civil War thus ending the bloodshed over whether Federal law trumps State law. It does unquestioningly.

Legalization of marijuana in California via Prop 19 would have been a disaster. Los Angeles has corporations who rent out air port hangars and industrial buildings for massive corporate pot grows. San Francisco/Oakland is unionizing medical marijuana grows. The rest of the State of California is county by county. Up here in NorCal it is the Wild West where the law is grey, the State says it is legal, and police authorities are hesitant to investigate medical marijuana crimes against medical marijuana growers and dispensaries because of the conflict over Federal law, namely marijuana classified as a Scheduled I Controlled Substance.

If Prop 19 passed the US Supreme Court would have shut it down citing the primacy of Federal law over State law and the Interstate Commerce Clause in the US Constitution. The text of Prop 19 had no enforcement provision to prevent a corporate grow in Los Angeles from selling out of state, thus violating the Interstate Commerce Clause and inviting the US Supreme Court to nullify Prop 19.

We are a ways off from full legalization of marijuana. The best we can do is decriminalize down to a civil infraction like a parking or speeding ticket and allow for medical marijuana.



Killiana1a said:

If Prop 19 passed the US Supreme Court would have shut it down citing the primacy of Federal law over State law and the Interstate Commerce Clause in the US Constitution. The text of Prop 19 had no enforcement provision to prevent a corporate grow in Los Angeles from selling out of state, thus violating the Interstate Commerce Clause and inviting the US Supreme Court to nullify Prop 19.


I do not know if the Supreme Court has the right to knock down a law like prop 19 that could have been voted yes by the people I may be wrong. What I do know is that the prohibition of alcohol was overturned by the federal government only after about 15 states relegalzed alcohol. As far as I know we are called the United States because our forefathers wanted to keep to much power from the federal goverment and set many forms of checks and balances to that government. One of them was to give a lot of power to legislate to each individual state. Has the government stopped Denver from all out legalization of marijuan, No. By states legalizing marijuana one at a time people are working for real reform and telling the government the will of the people will matter more than the government not realising they made a mistake by making it illegal for so long.



Kasz216 said:
rakugakist said:
Kasz216 said:
rakugakist said:


Kasz216 said:
rakugakist said:
Kasz216 said:
whatever said:
PDF said:

Yes we should legalize and TAX the shit out of it.

Pot smokers dont deserve to go to jail, but since they have less of a positive influence on society we counter balance this with taking all their damn money.

Not sure where your getting this from.  In college, a lot of the smartest people I knew smoked pot.  It seemed very popular among physicists.  I think it was because theoretical physics require quite a bit of imagination to figure things out.  It's quite mind-bending to try and understand some of the complex theories in physics.

Weed doesn't actually make you think any deeper or imaginitive, it just makes you think dumb ideas are smart... try having a philosphy major have a conversation with a bunch of stoners and you'll see what i mean.

Go home and burn half your music, and while you're at it destroy half your games, cause the people that created that shit were probably real fucking high on drugs.

Which has to do with what?  Most music, including "good" music is actually pretty dumb from a pure lyrics department.  I mean, the Killers... how much drugs do you think they do?  Doesn't really change the beat.

Music by design is supposed to be "stupid".  If it's literal, it doesn't lend well because you are disctracted by the lyrics.

And most games... well actually most games if anything don't have stupid ideas anymore... I much perfered it when they did because that meant more time was spent on gameplay.

Was Miyamoto high when he came up with SMB?  Probably, the idea isn't want makes SMB what it is though.  It's the gameplay.

 

The Killers?  Seriously?  Okay.

You made a comment about drugs making people imaginative, and then go to talk about "stupid" ideas, and music and games having "stupid" ideas.  I'm starting to wonder if you're high.

My comment had nothing to do with people acting stupid when they're high.  My comment was about positive and creative ideas stemming while people are high, which has happened for centuries, no matter what the drug is.

Drugs can cause a positive influence on society.

And, Miyamoto.  Come on, he created the gameplay.

I bet he wasn't high at work while he was doing it.  ANYTHING can cause a positive influence on society, including murder.  The question was  the chances  vs positive vs negative influence.

Wow.

Comparing murder to marijuana is a pretty big step.

Does marijuana cause people to act slow, stupid, and lazy?  Yes, everybody knows that, but so does television.

I do agree with you on one point, that it is the person's right to choose.  I just think you're overlooking the positive outcomes that marijuana has had on this society.  And, I'm not talking about the KIllers.

Weed doesn't create talent, but it helps some people present it.  It helps imaginations run wild and brings out the deepest in some people, thus it makes them more imaginative.

That's all my argument is. I'm also not talking about stupid stoner philosophy students that come up with a basic idea and think it's genius because they go, "Whoa, man..."

I
Bolded I agree with.  TV as well has more negatives then positives.  Though I do like me some TV.  You don't think the world would be a better place if less people watched TV?  Most things people want to do are at a net negative. 

Italicized I do not.

Marijuna brings out creativity in the same way cigarettes relax people and alchohol makes people more social.

Most of it is a placebo effect, and the rest is the fact that you've gotten so addicted to the product that you have problems without it purely BECAUSE of your addiction.

You're completely ignorant.