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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why Steam is Awesome, and How You Can Make Live Free

Alby_da_Wolf on 06 December 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

1) Luckily yes, anyway, if I play free P2P I don't pretend to get expensive services from the publisher, even fan sites with links to join games being played can do. And actually it's not the $50-60 to pay that bugs me, it's the fact that on XBox there is no other choice than changing platform. But as I still prefer PC, this issue doesn't really affect me, unless it is extended to other consoles, as I think that sooner or later I could buy a Wii. Actually, another thing that could bug me if I paid a fee, is that my internet connection is quite shaky, so I wouldn't fully exploit what I payed for.

We don't know exactly how expensive it is to operate. If you can find exactly how much it cost to provide that for millions of people, I'd be curious to see. Even if its not incredibly expensive to offer online play, Xbox Live is not an expensive service to begin with. If you drop $60 for a year it comes down to $5 a month.

I'm a computer technician but I don't much care for online gaming on the PC. The Xbox 360 commnuity has a different appeal, I often play online games not on the PC, and I like the unified network. Frankly, I don't care if I'm fully exploiting the service. It only comes down to a few bucks a month and its worth that to me. I don't fully exploit anything I pay for, but I don't lose sleep over it.

 

2) If we consider just consoles, it's the most successful, and it has also the financial majority of online revenue, yes, I'm aware of this. On consoles it's a minority just as number of players, but a big and healthy one. I actually meant a minority both as number of players and as revenue including PC too. Quite obviously, if MS is happy with having the most profitable console online service and it doesn't want the numerical majority of users too, Gold is still the solution, my point is only that the numerical majority favours services that get their revenue from selling games and premium services, not basic services too. About this particular issue fact is that they exist two different relevant majorities, depending on whether MS wants to get for its service maximum profit margin (and maximum profit too if we consider consoles only) or if it wants to attract the majorty of users. Maybe I tend to attribute the latter approach to MS because I forget that after becoming sure that Sony wouldn't have conquered the majority of gaming market and grabbed the living room computing market, MS quite changed its behaviour, favouring more profit margin than increasing market share and stopping Sony at any cost.

You're kinda just babbling... none of this matters.

1) Yes, I'm aware that opinions, situation and tastes of PC gamers like me are quite different.

2) Maybe I wasn't very clear, but it matters, it has to do with what were priorities for MS in the past and what are currently and that past MS priorities tend to bias my analysis of XBL, making me incorrectly tend to exclude, or at least to consider less likely that it prioritizes profit and profit margin. The part about majority is quite simple, there's nothing complicated or strange, MS has the biggest profit in console online services, but not the absolute majorrity of users, and not even the absolute majority of profits if we consider PC online gaming too. Sorry but I'm falling asleep and I can't find a clearer way to put this stuff.



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Mr Puggsly on 06 December 2010
Alby_da_Wolf said:

2) Maybe I wasn't very clear, but it matters, it has to do with what were priorities for MS in the past and what are currently and that past MS priorities tend to bias my analysis of XBL, making me incorrectly tend to exclude, or at least to consider less likely that it prioritizes profit and profit margin. Sorry but I'm falling asleep and I can't find a clearer way to put this stuff.

Well when you put it that way... it stiill doesen't matter.

Now its becoming about how you feel about MS.



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richardhutnik on 06 December 2010

Wow, I wish free services like what the PS3 and Wii have had nearly the same level of demos that XBox does.  Because people pay for online play, everything from Game Room to Indie games, gets demos.  Demos on the Playstation 3?  Well, mostly the major disk based released.  Playstation store distributed exclusives don't get any.  As far as the Wii goes, that is NONE available online.

Now, back to the original premise.  Somehow, this premise is that large numbers of gamers will magically organize themselves and decide not to pay for Live, thus Microsoft would be forced to discontinue charging for online play... well, based on my first-hand experience, that wish is one that won't happen, no matter how much people wish it be so.  No guarantee Microsoft would end up dropping the fee if membership went down.  Shoot, they might even decide to INCREASE prices.  So, you then get lots of people without XBox Live, and playing online.

Want to get organized for something?  How about getting organized for something more important, like helping people find work, or helping the poor?  Or, something even more simple, which is gaming related: Ignore Pachter to the place where VGChartz will stop dedicating articles to his predictions?  I am yet again graced with a Pachter article once more when I pop on here, this time declaring the PSP2 dead before it is even released.



CDiablo on 06 December 2010
ElGranCabeza said:

How is Steam going to work on PSN anyways? One unified account? Have to create a sub account to use Steam, a la Konami with MGS4 (poor solution IMO)? Will any of Steam's catalog games work on PS3 (highly unlikely)? Will new Steam games going forward work on PS3? I really see it as only having to create a sub account to be part of "the Steam awesomeness" and being more of a pain in the ass than anything else to be honest.


I have a feeling its going to work like regular steam. When you buy Portal 2 or whatever you will get a code for PSN Steam and the game will be locked to your account so you cant resell it.......unless you are jailbroken.



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makingmusic476 on 06 December 2010
TRios_Zen said:
ElGranCabeza said:

How is Steam going to work on PSN anyways? One unified account? Have to create a sub account to use Steam, a la Konami with MGS4 (poor solution IMO)? Will any of Steam's catalog games work on PS3 (highly unlikely)? Will new Steam games going forward work on PS3? I really see it as only having to create a sub account to be part of "the Steam awesomeness" and being more of a pain in the ass than anything else to be honest.

This is a good question, and I'm interested in seeing the Steam integration as well.

I agree both that Steam is pretty cool and that consumer demand drives the price of services.  The reason the PS3 cost what it does today, is because not enough people were buying it at the price it was.  The reason the 360 will eventually drop in price again, is for the same reason, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, a crap-load of people ARE paying for Live even at it's current price, so it's unlikely to ever go free (me included....doh!).  In fact, I'd agree with others in this thread that this a revenue stream that neither Sony nor Nintendo will ignore for too long.


I think you guys are overestimating Steam's presence on PSN.  As far as I know, it's simply a back end integration that will allow Valve games on PS3 to be patched directly by Valve, rather than going through Sony, which will allow Valve to maintain parity between the PC and PS3 versions of their games.  They may (emphasis on may) also provide cloud storage for your saves as well.  Outside of this, I'd expect Valve's games to use normal PSN features, like your user ID and Trophies.

richardhutnik said:

Wow, I wish free services like what the PS3 and Wii have had nearly the same level of demos that XBox does.  Because people pay for online play, everything from Game Room to Indie games, gets demos.  Demos on the Playstation 3?  Well, mostly the major disk based released.  Playstation store distributed exclusives don't get any.  As far as the Wii goes, that is NONE available online.

Now, back to the original premise.  Somehow, this premise is that large numbers of gamers will magically organize themselves and decide not to pay for Live, thus Microsoft would be forced to discontinue charging for online play... well, based on my first-hand experience, that wish is one that won't happen, no matter how much people wish it be so.  No guarantee Microsoft would end up dropping the fee if membership went down.  Shoot, they might even decide to INCREASE prices.  So, you then get lots of people without XBox Live, and playing online.

Want to get organized for something?  How about getting organized for something more important, like helping people find work, or helping the poor?  Or, something even more simple, which is gaming related: Ignore Pachter to the place where VGChartz will stop dedicating articles to his predictions?  I am yet again graced with a Pachter article once more when I pop on here, this time declaring the PSP2 dead before it is even released.

Paying for LIve is entirely unrelated to the fact that Microsoft mandates that all XBLA games have a demo.  Providing a demo is only an added burden for the developer, who then has to prepare multiple builds of their products for release.  Sony could easily mandate demos for all PSN releases as well, but they simply choose not to, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they aren't charging for online play. 

Though I agree that such a practice is disappointing.  If only this thread were about ps3 or Wii, maybe we could talk about this more in-depth.

And I'll go make a thread on helping people find work right now, if that's what constitutes "getting organized" in your book.  =/



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MaxwellGT2000 on 06 December 2010
richardhutnik said:

Wow, I wish free services like what the PS3 and Wii have had nearly the same level of demos that XBox does.  Because people pay for online play, everything from Game Room to Indie games, gets demos.  Demos on the Playstation 3?  Well, mostly the major disk based released.  Playstation store distributed exclusives don't get any.  As far as the Wii goes, that is NONE available online.

Now, back to the original premise.  Somehow, this premise is that large numbers of gamers will magically organize themselves and decide not to pay for Live, thus Microsoft would be forced to discontinue charging for online play... well, based on my first-hand experience, that wish is one that won't happen, no matter how much people wish it be so.  No guarantee Microsoft would end up dropping the fee if membership went down.  Shoot, they might even decide to INCREASE prices.  So, you then get lots of people without XBox Live, and playing online.

Want to get organized for something?  How about getting organized for something more important, like helping people find work, or helping the poor?  Or, something even more simple, which is gaming related: Ignore Pachter to the place where VGChartz will stop dedicating articles to his predictions?  I am yet again graced with a Pachter article once more when I pop on here, this time declaring the PSP2 dead before it is even released.


Uhm you realize you listed everything you can do with the free section of Xbox Live right?  I refuse to pay and I still get to play the arcade room, buy indie games, download demos, and buy my XBLA games... I just don't play them online  

Also in general this threads topic is talking about Steams services it provides for free and how things like that lead to GFWL going free and hoping the same could happen on 360 if people decided not to pay for it, not exactly sure where Nintendo and Sony get wrapped up in this, it's not like they can provide a free service on another platform like valve did in counter to GFWL, thus the only logical way to force MS to stop charges is for people to start refusing to pay in mass, or a boycott essentially.  Though I find it laughable since that'll never happen.



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evolution_1ne on 06 December 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
dahuman said:

Sony should just contract Valve to work on their PSN and XMB along with Steam support as well and keep things free, that'd kick XBL in the balls really really hard.

So spend money to have Valve work on PSN? You want them to spend more money on a free service?

I think Sony rather go the route of Live. Keep getting people to subscribe to PSN Plus and make it a requirement for online play on PS4. More munnies that way.

and the same thing would happen with windows live on PC, no one would pay for the shit and the ps4 would lose an ass ton of sales and it would go back to being free, but....however Sony isn't retarded. They'll keep psn just like it is and keep plus just like it is, an option for those who want extra, but no one will pay for online gameplay. and they'll never charge for it.



Mr Puggsly on 06 December 2010
evolution_1ne said:
Mr Puggsly said:
dahuman said:

Sony should just contract Valve to work on their PSN and XMB along with Steam support as well and keep things free, that'd kick XBL in the balls really really hard.

So spend money to have Valve work on PSN? You want them to spend more money on a free service?

I think Sony rather go the route of Live. Keep getting people to subscribe to PSN Plus and make it a requirement for online play on PS4. More munnies that way.

and the same thing would happen with windows live on PC, no one would pay for the shit and the ps4 would lose an ass ton of sales and it would go back to being free, but....however Sony isn't retarded. They'll keep psn just like it is and keep plus just like it is, an option for those who want extra, but no one will pay for online gameplay. and they'll never charge for it.

Windows Live for PC didn't have a chance at being a success. MS saved all their killer apps for the 360. Wasn't a bad idea considering Live has been a massive success.

Sony lost a ton sales putting out a ridiculously high priced console. Xbox 360 gained a lot of sales having a reasonably priced HD console even though they charge for online play. A lesson learned for Sony.

You are naive if you think Sony won't charge. Like I said, PSN Plus is a stepping stone for making the transition on PS4.



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richardhutnik on 06 December 2010
makingmusic476 said:

 

richardhutnik said:

Wow, I wish free services like what the PS3 and Wii have had nearly the same level of demos that XBox does.  Because people pay for online play, everything from Game Room to Indie games, gets demos.  Demos on the Playstation 3?  Well, mostly the major disk based released.  Playstation store distributed exclusives don't get any.  As far as the Wii goes, that is NONE available online.

Now, back to the original premise.  Somehow, this premise is that large numbers of gamers will magically organize themselves and decide not to pay for Live, thus Microsoft would be forced to discontinue charging for online play... well, based on my first-hand experience, that wish is one that won't happen, no matter how much people wish it be so.  No guarantee Microsoft would end up dropping the fee if membership went down.  Shoot, they might even decide to INCREASE prices.  So, you then get lots of people without XBox Live, and playing online.

Want to get organized for something?  How about getting organized for something more important, like helping people find work, or helping the poor?  Or, something even more simple, which is gaming related: Ignore Pachter to the place where VGChartz will stop dedicating articles to his predictions?  I am yet again graced with a Pachter article once more when I pop on here, this time declaring the PSP2 dead before it is even released.

Paying for LIve is entirely unrelated to the fact that Microsoft mandates that all XBLA games have a demo.  Providing a demo is only an added burden for the developer, who then has to prepare multiple builds of their products for release.  Sony could easily mandate demos for all PSN releases as well, but they simply choose not to, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they aren't charging for online play. 

Though I agree that such a practice is disappointing.  If only this thread were about ps3 or Wii, maybe we could talk about this more in-depth.

And I'll go make a thread on helping people find work right now, if that's what constitutes "getting organized" in your book.  =/

This would end up going off on a tangent if it were discussed fully.  I would add here, that maybe it exists because Microsoft mandates demos for everything.  However, with the PS3, Sony charges fees to developers for each time demos or content is downloaded.  It is a fee for each Gig of bandwidth used for downloading.  Sony and Nintendo follow different business models, which result in different services being provided to people who use their services.  Instead of pay to play online, Sony decides to do Playstation Plus at $50/year, which is to access discounts and some free content.  The pay to play online enables Microsoft to do things differently.

Hey on the thread to help people get work, it would likely require a lot more, but I am up for something in this area.



evolution_1ne on 06 December 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
evolution_1ne said:
Mr Puggsly said:
dahuman said:

Sony should just contract Valve to work on their PSN and XMB along with Steam support as well and keep things free, that'd kick XBL in the balls really really hard.

So spend money to have Valve work on PSN? You want them to spend more money on a free service?

I think Sony rather go the route of Live. Keep getting people to subscribe to PSN Plus and make it a requirement for online play on PS4. More munnies that way.

and the same thing would happen with windows live on PC, no one would pay for the shit and the ps4 would lose an ass ton of sales and it would go back to being free, but....however Sony isn't retarded. They'll keep psn just like it is and keep plus just like it is, an option for those who want extra, but no one will pay for online gameplay. and they'll never charge for it.

Windows Live for PC didn't have a chance at being a success. MS saved all their killer apps for the 360. Wasn't a bad idea considering Live has been a massive success.

Sony lost a ton sales putting out a ridiculously high priced console. Xbox 360 gained a lot of sales having a reasonably priced HD console even though they charge for online play. A lesson learned for Sony.

You are naive if you think Sony won't charge. Like I said, PSN Plus is a stepping stone for making the transition on PS4.

seems more like a hope/ wishful thinking to me. And even though my point still stands PSN users WON'T pay for it, I don't give a crap what they offer, if online gaming is charged next gen Sony is fucked.

P.S. M$ charging for Live has nothing to do with it because they did the same last gen......