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Forums - General - do you agree with the new TSA security measures?

 

do you agree with the new TSA security measures?

yes 24 25.26%
 
no 47 49.47%
 
don't care 11 11.58%
 
another great thread,from... 1 1.05%
 
it's all overblown 2 2.11%
 
the should use different tactics 9 9.47%
 
Total:94
ishiki said:

well all that is true. Except for your clothing is on when the picture is taken :P

I see you are not familiar with the technology. It can see your junk. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20004436-504083.html I can link you to some other websites too if you like. That picture of you is also stored. So the government is, effectively, creating a database of child porn and voyeur photos anyone wanting to fly are forced to get thrown into.

The combating terrorism line is a distraction. The rules have been arbitrarily decided from the beginning, and are not remotely consistent.  For example a soldier can carry on a M-240B machine gun no problem, but a pair of nail clippers? Look out! He might take over the plane! No, seriously. http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/another-tsa-outrage/

I love flying. Despite the unbelievable pain I suffer (medical issue) as a result I still prefer to fly over anything else. At the end of the day Happysqurriel has it on this one. This is another random search and seizure forced by the government. The fact that the public outcry against drunk driving has silenced the constitution does not make those random check points any more legal than this.

Security is an issue. I get that. Exactly which threat are they combating by looking at my junk? What terrorist threat is contingent on the size of my penis? That is the question. The burden of proof is not on those objecting to invasive and illegal measures being forced on them by the government. It is on the government who is forcing them on the people. They answer to the law abiding citizens of the country. Never, ever the other way around.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

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greenmedic88 said:

If anything happens due to security measures being "too lax" or just plain non-existent, you can bet everyone who felt violated, inconvenienced or even just plain annoyed at having to take off their shoes while waiting at a security checkpoint, will immediately look for a place to point the finger at for failing to do enough.

At any rate, the scanners are supposed to make security checks more effective as well as more expedient (read: convenient). Hardly anything worse than being required to go through a metal detector or having a security guard sweep you with the wand.

Metal detectors and sweeping me with a wand does not expose my junk. Nor does it involve someone touching it. I will have nothing to do with either. They are offering no viable alternative to people who are either private, or scarred by past experiences. I know more than a few people who simply cannot fly now for fear of being put through one of the enhanced pat downs. Flash backs to prior sexual assault is remarkably easy to trigger. I do not have such a great reason, but it is still plenty valid.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

ishiki said:
HappySqurriel said:

First off, from my understanding of US laws it classifies as sexual assualt; after all an individual (or group) is using their position of power to touch you in sensitive areas and/or taking pictures of you without clothing on.

Secondly, it is an illegal search. There is no probable cause for these searches and they are certainly not being carried out with a warrant from a judge.

Thirdly, with the resources (man power and monetary resources) that are going to ensure that no one can go onto the plane without their "junk" being searched it is likely that people are less safe because the resources have been taken away from protecting against other attacks.

well all that is true. Except for your clothing is on when the picture is taken :P

Not saying it's right again, but the cops randomly stop people for DUI... etc... not that I agree without, beings I've gotten arrested for a DUI, when it was prescription medication because I'm bipolar.

What would you have them do to prevent terrorism? Is my question. It's easy to critisize solutions. When you have no answers to the problem. If you have an idea than sure. Just wondering what your idea was

I have no better ideas so I don't critisize the solution. I mean yes eliminating terrorists is the root, and the destroying the roots always the best. But in the meantime if eliminating terrorists is possible (I don't think so). you can ignore or try to alleviate the symptoms (Planes going into buildings and such).

Edit
I guess one solution that I'd agree with. Was  reinforcing the cockpit were good ideas as were others I think that I forgot and then stand pat. But then politics get into the situation of what is the government doing to prevent terrorism. When imo, some terrorism you can not realistically prevent.

So I guess I sort of agree with you after randomly thing.

Terrorists are not a particularly diverse group in any way; when you factor in gender, age, travel history, education, employment, marital status and (potentially) dozens of other factors you should be able to eliminate 95% of people as potential terrorists with very little work. On top of that, terrorists are very rare so of the 5% who are "potential terrorists" 99.999% will (probably) not be a terrorist so the goal should be to look for something suspicious before pushing these people to the invasive search. In the end you should only need to be searching (maybe) 1% of the passengers in this was to ensure protection from terrorists ...

Certainly, the TSA might want to suppliment that with random searches to promote the appearance of fairness but if they're searching more than 5% of the passengers in this way they're not doing their jobs effectively.



Lostplanet22 said:
Raze said:

No, I disagree with it. Here's why:

When your number is up, your number is up. Your death was known before you entered this world. Nothing will stop that. If you were destined to be part of a giant missle slamming into the side of a building, it was in the stars long ago. Every day you wake up, you are gambling with your life. So STOP BEING SCARED. You will die, we all will. Some will die young, some will die old.

 

Written in witch stars exactly;..Just the same nonsenses kids use..

'Why didn't you made your homework?'  'Can't do about it, it was written in the stars that I would not make it, or God did not wanted it';...

Edit: On topic: Prefer they make it harder for terrorists to do something, always nice that talk about freedom but when something happens;..'The state should have done this, the governemnt this, complain, complain complain...

The fates, destiny. Your life and all your actions were known long before you took your first breath. Your "free will" is just a script that you're acting out, and when you think you're changing your destiny, that change WAS your destiny. Who you are and what you do in life was plotted out before you were conceived.



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


Raze said:

The fates, destiny. Your life and all your actions were known long before you took your first breath. Your "free will" is just a script that you're acting out, and when you think you're changing your destiny, that change WAS your destiny. Who you are and what you do in life was plotted out before you were conceived.


That is a great way to escape any sense of personal responsibility, but a terrible way of defending random acts. You can continue to think nothing you do falls back onto you, but projecting that out to others is illogical to the extreme. I will continue to believe people are accountable for their actions, as it should be. Until and unless you have something resembling concrete evidence to the contrary that is.

A note: I realize the above might not logically follow for some so let me tease it out a bit for those confused. The assumption is in perfect predestination. In such events then our actions are not our own. This means that nothing we do is truly our fault. As such it is illogical to hold anyone responsible for any action since it is not their action at all. If the beginning is true then the rest must follow.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

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Raze said:

No, I disagree with it. Here's why:

1 - Think of computer hackers. Every time a new Antivirus comes out/updates, hackers find a way around it. New security measures just mean that terrorists will find a workaround.

2 - When your number is up, your number is up. Your death was known before you entered this world. Nothing will stop that. If you were destined to be part of a giant missle slamming into the side of a building, it was in the stars long ago. Every day you wake up, you are gambling with your life. So STOP BEING SCARED. You will die, we all will. Some will die young, some will die old.

3 - I paraphrase from Benjamin Franklin - He who surrenders freedom for security deserves neither.

4 - This nation is turning into a police state. Since GW Bush came into office, our freedoms have been shat upon. If we don't start turning the tide, we may have as well surrendered to Hitler.

Other than the 'stars' part, I fully agree. And even regardin your point 2, I agree people shouldn't be so scared of everything. You will die eventually, no matter what you do. And you're much more likely to die in a car accident than in a terrorist strike anyway, Also, I don't live in the country you are speaking of but I can see it happen everywhere.



I don't see why people are being so stupid about this, it's not that big of a deal.  You essentially have three very simple choices:

1. Go through the damn scanner, it can't see your junk.
2. Get patted down.
3. Don't fly.

You have absolute control over which choice you choose!



twesterm said:

I don't see why people are being so stupid about this, it's not that big of a deal.  You essentially have three very simple choices:

1. Go through the damn scanner, it can't see your junk.
2. Get patted down.
3. Don't fly.

You have absolute control over which choice you choose!


http://www.gadling.com/2010/09/28/body-scanners-used-as-porn-by-airport-security/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20004436-504083.html

It can see your junk.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

ishiki said:
HappySqurriel said:

First off, from my understanding of US laws it classifies as sexual assualt; after all an individual (or group) is using their position of power to touch you in sensitive areas and/or taking pictures of you without clothing on.

Secondly, it is an illegal search. There is no probable cause for these searches and they are certainly not being carried out with a warrant from a judge.

Thirdly, with the resources (man power and monetary resources) that are going to ensure that no one can go onto the plane without their "junk" being searched it is likely that people are less safe because the resources have been taken away from protecting against other attacks.

well all that is true. Except for your clothing is on when the picture is taken :P

Not saying it's right again, but the cops randomly stop people for DUI... etc... not that I agree without, beings I've gotten arrested for a DUI, when it was prescription medication because I'm bipolar.

What would you have them do to prevent terrorism? Is my question. It's easy to critisize solutions. When you have no answers to the problem. If you have an idea than sure. Just wondering what your idea was

I have no better ideas so I don't critisize the solution. I mean yes eliminating terrorists is the root, and the destroying the roots always the best. But in the meantime if eliminating terrorists is possible (I don't think so). you can ignore or try to alleviate the symptoms (Planes going into buildings and such).

Edit
I guess one solution that I'd agree with. Was  reinforcing the cockpit were good ideas as were others I think that I forgot and then stand pat. But then politics get into the situation of what is the government doing to prevent terrorism. When imo, some terrorism you can not realistically prevent.

So I guess I sort of agree with you after randomly thing.

that is also against the law. they have to have a reason to stop you. they can't just randomly do it. if its a check point they have to get pre approval and are posted in local papers as to not entrap I believe.



So I can't recall if someone here suggested following the method Israel uses. I have seen it elsewhere if nothing else and thought "well we are not in nearly the extreme situation they are. No need to go that far." Well that and a few less kind words about Israel's typical reaction to "terrorist" threats. Then I found this article and it kind of floored me. I invite you to read it, and remember Israel has had far less issues with airport terrorism. http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229