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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo trying to figure out ehy Metroid Other M didn't sell

greenmedic88 on 14 November 2010
xcot said:

You know what i see the problem to be?

This in no way is an attack on american culture, but i think the term 'badass' is too wound up in your culture. I don't know what would make you think samus is a badass, as she's mostly been mute; akin to saying gordon freeman or link are badasses. MOM has actually given her character and made her an actual personality.

/my 2 cents

imo ofcourse

Considering that she singlehandedly committed wholesale genocide on a nigh indestructible species, that makes her pretty bad. Badass or otherwise.

I just saw her as being unflappable, and frankly, no personality is preferable to an extremely annoying personality.



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Khuutra on 14 November 2010

It didn't sell as well because consumers didn't think it was as good. Nintendo knows that. Now they need to dissect it.



Khuutra on 14 November 2010
Aiddon said:

Samus was nothing more than a Mary Sue, a player proxy that we projected onto. It's the same thing with Gordon Freeman, Master Chief, Marcus Fenix, Commander Shepard, and just about every protagonist in Western RPGs.

That is not what Mary Sue means. Mary Sues are an authorial self-insert into an established canon where they don't make sense. Silent protagonists are not Mary Sues, that assertion is ridiculous. Doubly ridiculous in that most of the characters you named aren't silent protagonists, have clearly defined personalities (Shepard, Fenix, Chief), and are clearly not authorial self-inserts.

Adam Malkovich is actually much closer to being a Mary Sue; a super important figure that Samus couldn't help thinking of as her father (to the degree that her being raised by the Chozo is rarely or never mentioned in this story), a person around whom the events of the game center in a way that's not characteristic of the series up to this point, a person who engenders out-of-character behavior in the protagonist, and who is the actual embodiment of how Sakamoto sees himself as Samus's father. Adam Malkovich is a textbook case of a Mary Sue; Samus, prior to this game, didn't fit the definition at all.



Aiddon on 14 November 2010
Khuutra said:
Aiddon said:

Samus was nothing more than a Mary Sue, a player proxy that we projected onto. It's the same thing with Gordon Freeman, Master Chief, Marcus Fenix, Commander Shepard, and just about every protagonist in Western RPGs.

That is not what Mary Sue means. Mary Sues are an authorial self-insert into an established canon where they don't make sense. Silent protagonists are not Mary Sues, that assertion is ridiculous. Doubly ridiculous in that most of the characters you named aren't silent protagonists, have clearly defined personalities (Shepard, Fenix, Chief), and are clearly not authorial self-inserts.

Adam Malkovich is actually much closer to being a Mary Sue; a super important figure that Samus couldn't help thinking of as her father (to the degree that her being raised by the Chozo is rarely or never mentioned in this story), a person around whom the events of the game center in a way that's not characteristic of the series up to this point, a person who engenders out-of-character behavior in the protagonist, and who is the actual embodiment of how Sakamoto sees himself as Samus's father. Adam Malkovich is a textbook case of a Mary Sue; Samus, prior to this game, didn't fit the definition at all.


actually we're both right; both definitions are correct, it's just that the original definition (author avatar) has largely been forgotten. Samus was exactly that, an over-idealized wish fulfillment character that we projected onto in order to make ourselves feel elevated, as is the case with many, many, many, MANY narratives in games. It doesn't HAVE to be fanfiction for it to qualify as a Mary Sue, any half-decent writer can tell you that.



Khuutra on 14 November 2010
Aiddon said:
Khuutra said:

That is not what Mary Sue means. Mary Sues are an authorial self-insert into an established canon where they don't make sense. Silent protagonists are not Mary Sues, that assertion is ridiculous. Doubly ridiculous in that most of the characters you named aren't silent protagonists, have clearly defined personalities (Shepard, Fenix, Chief), and are clearly not authorial self-inserts.

Adam Malkovich is actually much closer to being a Mary Sue; a super important figure that Samus couldn't help thinking of as her father (to the degree that her being raised by the Chozo is rarely or never mentioned in this story), a person around whom the events of the game center in a way that's not characteristic of the series up to this point, a person who engenders out-of-character behavior in the protagonist, and who is the actual embodiment of how Sakamoto sees himself as Samus's father. Adam Malkovich is a textbook case of a Mary Sue; Samus, prior to this game, didn't fit the definition at all.

actually we're both right; both definitions are correct, it's just that the original definition (author avatar) has largely been forgotten. Samus was exactly that, an over-idealized wish fulfillment character that we projected onto in order to make ourselves feel elevated, as is the case with many, many, many, MANY narratives in games. It doesn't HAVE to be fanfiction for it to qualify as a Mary Sue, any half-decent writer can tell you that.

Common usage does not equate to a definition when in the wrong context; the context you're using it in is closer to "any character I don't like" - silent protagonists can't be Mayr Sues. They have no personality. That's not the same thing.

Other M wasn't fanfiction by any means, but Malkovich was unquestionably a Mary Sue. That's not the point of contention here. Silent protagonists are not Mary Sues, and you're wrong for suggesting that they are.



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--OkeyDokey-- on 14 November 2010
KylieDog said:

I do not know why people say it wasn't advertised, I saw quite a lot of ads on British TV during primetime hours and I barely watch TV.

I live in Australia. Games barely get advertised on TV here outside of the holiday season. I saw more Other M ads on TV than I have Halo: Reach, Red Dead Redemption, God of War III, Mass Effect 2... I can go on.



MrT-Tar on 14 November 2010
KylieDog said:

I do not know why people say it wasn't advertised, I saw quite a lot of ads on British TV during primetime hours and I barely watch TV.


I live in the U.K and I saw no TV ads whatsoever.  I saw some magazine ads in ONM, but nothing else.  While most TV I watch is on the various BBC channels and therefore doesn't have ads, I would say I watch a decent amount on Sky, Channel 4, Five, etc.




Mr Khan on 14 November 2010
Khuutra said:
Aiddon said:
Khuutra said:

That is not what Mary Sue means. Mary Sues are an authorial self-insert into an established canon where they don't make sense. Silent protagonists are not Mary Sues, that assertion is ridiculous. Doubly ridiculous in that most of the characters you named aren't silent protagonists, have clearly defined personalities (Shepard, Fenix, Chief), and are clearly not authorial self-inserts.

Adam Malkovich is actually much closer to being a Mary Sue; a super important figure that Samus couldn't help thinking of as her father (to the degree that her being raised by the Chozo is rarely or never mentioned in this story), a person around whom the events of the game center in a way that's not characteristic of the series up to this point, a person who engenders out-of-character behavior in the protagonist, and who is the actual embodiment of how Sakamoto sees himself as Samus's father. Adam Malkovich is a textbook case of a Mary Sue; Samus, prior to this game, didn't fit the definition at all.

actually we're both right; both definitions are correct, it's just that the original definition (author avatar) has largely been forgotten. Samus was exactly that, an over-idealized wish fulfillment character that we projected onto in order to make ourselves feel elevated, as is the case with many, many, many, MANY narratives in games. It doesn't HAVE to be fanfiction for it to qualify as a Mary Sue, any half-decent writer can tell you that.

Common usage does not equate to a definition when in the wrong context; the context you're using it in is closer to "any character I don't like" - silent protagonists can't be Mayr Sues. They have no personality. That's not the same thing.

Other M wasn't fanfiction by any means, but Malkovich was unquestionably a Mary Sue. That's not the point of contention here. Silent protagonists are not Mary Sues, and you're wrong for suggesting that they are.

It's Gary Stu if it's a guy, btw



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

dahuman on 14 November 2010

Some people I talked to said that the game didn't have that same feel of isolation and can't connect to her that way like they did in prime so they are not excited or interested in it. These are girls I talked to btw. /shrug A lot of girls play/played Metroid.



Aiddon on 14 November 2010
Khuutra said:
Aiddon said:
Khuutra said:

That is not what Mary Sue means. Mary Sues are an authorial self-insert into an established canon where they don't make sense. Silent protagonists are not Mary Sues, that assertion is ridiculous. Doubly ridiculous in that most of the characters you named aren't silent protagonists, have clearly defined personalities (Shepard, Fenix, Chief), and are clearly not authorial self-inserts.

Adam Malkovich is actually much closer to being a Mary Sue; a super important figure that Samus couldn't help thinking of as her father (to the degree that her being raised by the Chozo is rarely or never mentioned in this story), a person around whom the events of the game center in a way that's not characteristic of the series up to this point, a person who engenders out-of-character behavior in the protagonist, and who is the actual embodiment of how Sakamoto sees himself as Samus's father. Adam Malkovich is a textbook case of a Mary Sue; Samus, prior to this game, didn't fit the definition at all.

actually we're both right; both definitions are correct, it's just that the original definition (author avatar) has largely been forgotten. Samus was exactly that, an over-idealized wish fulfillment character that we projected onto in order to make ourselves feel elevated, as is the case with many, many, many, MANY narratives in games. It doesn't HAVE to be fanfiction for it to qualify as a Mary Sue, any half-decent writer can tell you that.

Common usage does not equate to a definition when in the wrong context; the context you're using it in is closer to "any character I don't like" - silent protagonists can't be Mayr Sues. They have no personality. That's not the same thing.

Other M wasn't fanfiction by any means, but Malkovich was unquestionably a Mary Sue. That's not the point of contention here. Silent protagonists are not Mary Sues, and you're wrong for suggesting that they are.

I'm not using it to slam characters I don't like, don't put words in my mouth. Samus had always been a Mary Sue because she was an avatar for the player to fulfill our wishes, as is the case with Mary Sues since its their primary function to be a wish fulfillment fantasy for either the author or the reader. I'm not wrong and neither are you, simple as that. MOVING ON NOW