Khuutra said:
Aiddon said:
Khuutra said:
That is not what Mary Sue means. Mary Sues are an authorial self-insert into an established canon where they don't make sense. Silent protagonists are not Mary Sues, that assertion is ridiculous. Doubly ridiculous in that most of the characters you named aren't silent protagonists, have clearly defined personalities (Shepard, Fenix, Chief), and are clearly not authorial self-inserts.
Adam Malkovich is actually much closer to being a Mary Sue; a super important figure that Samus couldn't help thinking of as her father (to the degree that her being raised by the Chozo is rarely or never mentioned in this story), a person around whom the events of the game center in a way that's not characteristic of the series up to this point, a person who engenders out-of-character behavior in the protagonist, and who is the actual embodiment of how Sakamoto sees himself as Samus's father. Adam Malkovich is a textbook case of a Mary Sue; Samus, prior to this game, didn't fit the definition at all.
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actually we're both right; both definitions are correct, it's just that the original definition (author avatar) has largely been forgotten. Samus was exactly that, an over-idealized wish fulfillment character that we projected onto in order to make ourselves feel elevated, as is the case with many, many, many, MANY narratives in games. It doesn't HAVE to be fanfiction for it to qualify as a Mary Sue, any half-decent writer can tell you that.
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Common usage does not equate to a definition when in the wrong context; the context you're using it in is closer to "any character I don't like" - silent protagonists can't be Mayr Sues. They have no personality. That's not the same thing.
Other M wasn't fanfiction by any means, but Malkovich was unquestionably a Mary Sue. That's not the point of contention here. Silent protagonists are not Mary Sues, and you're wrong for suggesting that they are.
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I'm not using it to slam characters I don't like, don't put words in my mouth. Samus had always been a Mary Sue because she was an avatar for the player to fulfill our wishes, as is the case with Mary Sues since its their primary function to be a wish fulfillment fantasy for either the author or the reader. I'm not wrong and neither are you, simple as that. MOVING ON NOW
