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Forums - Website Topics - VGC never gave a review score of 10. Do you think GT5 will change that?

Gnizmo said:
Seece said:

Of course it is, 10 is utter perfection, a game sent from the gods blah blah blah, and we all know that's NEVER going to happen.

It means, when a game here gets a 9.7 or something, you know it is something truly magnificant, rather than just another 40/40 from famitsu or whever it is.


If it is not possible to get the score, then it is not part of the scale by default. Let me illustrate by way of hyperbole. I can start to rank posts based on a scale of 1 to a billion, but nothing can get better than a 10. No possible way to get higher. Is my scale 1-10, or 1 to a billion? It is quite obviously not the latter as the bulk of the numbers are worthless, and the real point of comparison is 10.

These numbers are not valuable on their own. You can't just stick the number on it and have it mean something. I could rate a game on a scale I just invented in my head (and different from the one above) as a 20. How good is the game? The scale is a comparative one with an absolute maximum and absolute minimum. Any number that cannot be attained by something on the scale is irrelevant as it is not part of the scale. 10 games don't exist, and thus no game is judged against them. They are judged against the 9.9 being the top of the scale, and the best it could achieve.

TBH I don't think a game here will get a 9.9 either, and we're going to simply have to agree to disagree. Just because we havn't scored games 10 and 9.9 doesn't mean we don't know what those scores mean and what would be needed to get that kind of score. As far as this site goes, the scale wasn't invented in someones head, and it has actual meaning behind it, of which I assume the majority if not all reviewers agree with here.

You need to stop picking it apart and over analysing it. The scores here are chosen carefully and have more meaning behind them than the majority of websites. And when you put thought into that then the number does become important, which again unlike most sites on the net, they're irrelevent.



 

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Seece said:

TBH I don't think a game here will get a 9.9 either, and we're going to simply have to agree to disagree. Just because we havn't scored games 10 and 9.9 doesn't mean we don't know what those scores mean and what would be needed to get that kind of score. As far as this site goes, the scale wasn't invented in someones head, and it has actual meaning behind it, of which I assume the majority if not all reviewers agree with here.

You need to stop picking it apart and over analysing it. The scores here are chosen carefully and have more meaning behind them than the majority of websites. And when you put thought into that then the number does become important, which again unlike most sites on the net, they're irrelevent.


The score has meaning. I never disagreed. Numbers don't have meaning without context though. This is not over analyzing. This is the way of the world. If I said 3 randomly no one would have the slightest clue what it meant, nor how to respond. They have meaning in context. In context the maximum score is the highest one that can be given out. A 10 from VGChartz has no meaning because nothing can ever be attached to it. It is a number with no context, and thus meaningless.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Gnizmo said:
Seece said:

TBH I don't think a game here will get a 9.9 either, and we're going to simply have to agree to disagree. Just because we havn't scored games 10 and 9.9 doesn't mean we don't know what those scores mean and what would be needed to get that kind of score. As far as this site goes, the scale wasn't invented in someones head, and it has actual meaning behind it, of which I assume the majority if not all reviewers agree with here.

You need to stop picking it apart and over analysing it. The scores here are chosen carefully and have more meaning behind them than the majority of websites. And when you put thought into that then the number does become important, which again unlike most sites on the net, they're irrelevent.


The score has meaning. I never disagreed. Numbers don't have meaning without context though. This is not over analyzing. This is the way of the world. If I said 3 randomly no one would have the slightest clue what it meant, nor how to respond. They have meaning in context. In context the maximum score is the highest one that can be given out. A 10 from VGChartz has no meaning because nothing can ever be attached to it. It is a number with no context, and thus meaningless.

That's a black and white view on the subject in all honesty. I'm sure someone else on the review team can continue this if they want to.



 

I guess the site wants to be unique as they don't hand out 10's,  but we have plenty of these reviews sites anyway. As much as IGN gets blasted for handing out high scores, they rarely give such scores, gametrailers too. But, they will do it if a game deserve it, no matter how reviewers feel. Reviews are opinions and until one plays the game, no one can say it's not going to happen. 

But, GT5 won't get high scores as it will be skinned for any  flaws anyway.



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11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
Gnizmo said:
Seece said:

TBH I don't think a game here will get a 9.9 either, and we're going to simply have to agree to disagree. Just because we havn't scored games 10 and 9.9 doesn't mean we don't know what those scores mean and what would be needed to get that kind of score. As far as this site goes, the scale wasn't invented in someones head, and it has actual meaning behind it, of which I assume the majority if not all reviewers agree with here.

You need to stop picking it apart and over analysing it. The scores here are chosen carefully and have more meaning behind them than the majority of websites. And when you put thought into that then the number does become important, which again unlike most sites on the net, they're irrelevent.


The score has meaning. I never disagreed. Numbers don't have meaning without context though. This is not over analyzing. This is the way of the world. If I said 3 randomly no one would have the slightest clue what it meant, nor how to respond. They have meaning in context. In context the maximum score is the highest one that can be given out. A 10 from VGChartz has no meaning because nothing can ever be attached to it. It is a number with no context, and thus meaningless.

Perfection can be attached to it, but perfection is unattainable. Perfection is Divine, as the saying goes.

If The Blards of Wigglism is a brilliant game, with few noticeable faults, then still can't give it a ten. Because when Blards of Wigglism II: The Wurbles of Flordus releases, and improves upon the original in every way, it needs a higher score.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

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Gnizmo said:
Seece said:

Of course it is, 10 is utter perfection, a game sent from the gods blah blah blah, and we all know that's NEVER going to happen.

It means, when a game here gets a 9.7 or something, you know it is something truly magnificant, rather than just another 40/40 from famitsu or whever it is.


If it is not possible to get the score, then it is not part of the scale by default. Let me illustrate by way of hyperbole. I can start to rank posts based on a scale of 1 to a billion, but nothing can get better than a 10. No possible way to get higher. Is my scale 1-10, or 1 to a billion? It is quite obviously not the latter as the bulk of the numbers are worthless, and the real point of comparison is 10.

These numbers are not valuable on their own. You can't just stick the number on it and have it mean something. I could rate a game on a scale I just invented in my head (and different from the one above) as a 20. How good is the game? The scale is a comparative one with an absolute maximum and absolute minimum. Any number that cannot be attained by something on the scale is irrelevant as it is not part of the scale. 10 games don't exist, and thus no game is judged against them. They are judged against the 9.9 being the top of the scale, and the best it could achieve.

Edit: More specifically video games use an ordinal scale for reviewing in almost every instance. I couldn't remember the name a second ago.

Epic.



Kantor said:
Gnizmo said:
Seece said:

TBH I don't think a game here will get a 9.9 either, and we're going to simply have to agree to disagree. Just because we havn't scored games 10 and 9.9 doesn't mean we don't know what those scores mean and what would be needed to get that kind of score. As far as this site goes, the scale wasn't invented in someones head, and it has actual meaning behind it, of which I assume the majority if not all reviewers agree with here.

You need to stop picking it apart and over analysing it. The scores here are chosen carefully and have more meaning behind them than the majority of websites. And when you put thought into that then the number does become important, which again unlike most sites on the net, they're irrelevent.


The score has meaning. I never disagreed. Numbers don't have meaning without context though. This is not over analyzing. This is the way of the world. If I said 3 randomly no one would have the slightest clue what it meant, nor how to respond. They have meaning in context. In context the maximum score is the highest one that can be given out. A 10 from VGChartz has no meaning because nothing can ever be attached to it. It is a number with no context, and thus meaningless.

Perfection can be attached to it, but perfection is unattainable. Perfection is Divine, as the saying goes.

If The Blards of Wigglism is a brilliant game, with few noticeable faults, then still can't give it a ten. Because when Blards of Wigglism II: The Wurbles of Flordus releases, and improves upon the original in every way, it needs a higher score.


Can't it be said that a game is a 10/10 for it's time? So, in this sense. if the sequel significantly improves over this, it may still score lower than the first installment. My argument for MGS4 can be an example of this. Rising may improve on the MGS4 formula, but there' s a really really high chance it wont be as good of a game.



I don't think so.



Above: still the best game of the year.

perpride said:
Kantor said:
Gnizmo said:
Seece said:

TBH I don't think a game here will get a 9.9 either, and we're going to simply have to agree to disagree. Just because we havn't scored games 10 and 9.9 doesn't mean we don't know what those scores mean and what would be needed to get that kind of score. As far as this site goes, the scale wasn't invented in someones head, and it has actual meaning behind it, of which I assume the majority if not all reviewers agree with here.

You need to stop picking it apart and over analysing it. The scores here are chosen carefully and have more meaning behind them than the majority of websites. And when you put thought into that then the number does become important, which again unlike most sites on the net, they're irrelevent.


The score has meaning. I never disagreed. Numbers don't have meaning without context though. This is not over analyzing. This is the way of the world. If I said 3 randomly no one would have the slightest clue what it meant, nor how to respond. They have meaning in context. In context the maximum score is the highest one that can be given out. A 10 from VGChartz has no meaning because nothing can ever be attached to it. It is a number with no context, and thus meaningless.

Perfection can be attached to it, but perfection is unattainable. Perfection is Divine, as the saying goes.

If The Blards of Wigglism is a brilliant game, with few noticeable faults, then still can't give it a ten. Because when Blards of Wigglism II: The Wurbles of Flordus releases, and improves upon the original in every way, it needs a higher score.


Can't it be said that a game is a 10/10 for it's time? So, in this sense. if the sequel significantly improves over this, it may still score lower than the first installment. My argument for MGS4 can be an example of this. Rising may improve on the MGS4 formula, but there' s a really really high chance it wont be as good of a game.

And yet, I could name any number of flaws with MGS4.

  • Excessive reliance on nanomachines as deux ex machina.
  • Cutscnees which really ought to have been playable.
  • Far too easy to shoot your way through - Drebin.
  • Metal Gear Online

It is a brilliant game, and one of the best of the generation. But it's not perfect. Nothing is.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Kantor said:

Perfection can be attached to it, but perfection is unattainable. Perfection is Divine, as the saying goes.

If The Blards of Wigglism is a brilliant game, with few noticeable faults, then still can't give it a ten. Because when Blards of Wigglism II: The Wurbles of Flordus releases, and improves upon the original in every way, it needs a higher score.


Let us assume for a moment that the top of the scale has to represent perfection. I disagree, but its worth it for a thought exercise. In order for the number to stay relevant you must then define what perfection is in regards to gaming. This is a much more onerous task than just creating a perfect game.

Still there is nothing wrong with any scale. It is just disingenuous to say the score is out of 10 possible points when 10 points is not possible. It creates a meaningless number that people can bicker about. The whole concept is beyond me of course as I am against review scores anyways. I just think it is better to use the full scale as otherwise you get a bunch of useless numbers that do nothing but skew the perception of what the actual score means.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229