@DukeOfLuxembourg You made some good points but: 

"It is no accident that the Muslim world has had little to show for itself in the last 800 years or so"

this doesn't prove anything!

@DukeOfLuxembourg,

WOW! I believe you yourself did not go through all those texts and just copied from your favourite website. There are some utter lies about what you copied and some were misconceptions.

Those allegations and misconceptions were answered long before because I believe these questions exists even before you realized what religion is.

Here is a video from Dr. Zakir Naik who answered the questions and others:

Again, you non-muslims leading this topic to Muslims vs Christianity. Follow the links of this video to youtube and watch the other parts of it to get knowledge. If I write a long answer, you won't read it. A video is better to understand than reading.

- of course i readed it (like the whole thread) &yes i copied it from other pages
- where are the 'utter lies & misconceptions'?
- at least i know the difference between a religion & a political totaliterian idiology hiding behind the name of a religion, do you?
- it isn't a thread of muslims vs. christianity in it's core, but if the OP is clearly wrong you don't have to wonder some guys here are writting theyr point to show how wrong the OP was/is

You are comparing two different things.

I really don't care about your attempt to shoehorn this into an argument about the age of consent. You can't just say "I'm not comparing two different things, because this part of my comparison is a grey area".

You said "how do you draw a line between a homosexual and a child pornographer?", you can't just pick part of that definition because it's a grey area, you have to stick by all of it. I showed you why we draw the line because of the high potential for abuse (and Farmland gave a few more reasons too) and the age of constent is a guide (backed by law obviously) to stop this kind of abuse happening.

In homosexual relationships this kind of abuse is not common. And if they are in an abusive relationship then they are likely already mature enough to understand the situation and are mature enough to take action, just like with a heterosexual couple.

I just see you as trying to draw a comparison between two things that are far removed from each other.

It's widely accepted in scientific circles that sexuality isn't a choice. There are a huge number of factors - mostly biological some environmental - that determine sexuality.

Also the attempts to 'cure' homosexuality have all been at best scientifically inconclusive and at worst complete failures - nobody has ever had a proven way to change sexuality.

@Luxemburg. Your post is almost entirely historical, it is not necessarily relevant to modern Islam.

Edit: Also , I truly hope the Muslim world comes to embrace the social and political freedoms of the west while maintaining their culture and religion.

... "If ture"... "the right psychiatrist?...

There are millions of men and women who would love to know who this "right psychiatrist" is or where he is, do you have a phone number prehaps?

Doesn't matter anyway, I've only met a few gay people that weren't confused about their sexuality before going that route.

Sir you say god gives you free will, I say that I am alive, I refuse to assume anything aside from that, I say that life tosses me crap and I figure out what to do with it, what makes me better off that most is that I have the opportunity and the enginuity to make these things work for me. I know that this is the same for everyone else, they all handle their cases in their own way they all get hit with crap of all weights and shapes and sizes.

Your god can give you free will and that's fine, but the fundamental historic issue with Muhhamadan Muslims is that they are Jehovah Witnesses that don't know when to stop and will become violent. Christianity has been used in much of the same way, it was called imperialism then and it is today. I say the west or whoever has a right to reject a belief especially if they don't beleive it.

---

But a conquered people in the eyes of Islam are less than cattle but when conquered lands become liberated the whining just never ends.

"being gay is not genetical"

ignorant reponse, as expected.

you sound just like my people and if I ask "how do you know?" I be the answer would be "god didn't mention that nor mohammad then it must be a disease or abnormality" or similar bs.

I don't want my way out thanks, I am happy looking at my chubby fat hairy men but I'd be more happy if I could start touching them.

You sound like a decent person who is trying to be nice but you really need to read more about the subject before posting crap like pedos/gays.

Ten:

90% of muslims are stone age peasents in underdevelopped countries that believe anything their spiritual leader says and are anti anything else, even other variants of muslims (sunni/shiite).

90% of christians are really atheists living regular lives in semidevelopped to developped countries.

that's your other difference, which explains why there is such a bad view of islam... most muslims are not like you, most are just poor people with no education that follow their leader, many are just fanatics (yes many, most muslim countries have armed terrorist factions that use religion as a pretext to secure their power...heck in somalia they just executed 2 young women for being spies...of what? desert dune formation?).

and I LOLed at 4.... have you not been to an actuall muslim country with the charia? women can be lapidated for just about anything... yeah personal choice indeed to be covered. Hey choose A)cover yourself or B)die?

Ten:

90% of muslims are stone age peasents in underdevelopped countries that believe anything their spiritual leader says and are anti anything else, even other variants of muslims (sunni/shiite).

90% of christians are really atheists living regular lives in semidevelopped to developped countries.

that's your other difference, which explains why there is such a bad view of islam... most muslims are not like you, most are just poor people with no education that follow their leader, many are just fanatics (yes many, most muslim countries have armed terrorist factions that use religion as a pretext to secure their power...heck in somalia they just executed 2 young women for being spies...of what? desert dune formation?).

and I LOLed at 4.... have you not been to an actuall muslim country with the charia? women can be lapidated for just about anything... yeah personal choice indeed to be covered. Hey choose A)cover yourself or B)die? 

These statistics are far from being true. I live in a Muslim country and I read international news regularly written by the western media. So, I can say your information about 90% is wrong.

And you talk about ignorant people leading their leaders blindly? I believe western Christians and Atheists are just that. Ex-US President Bush told them the Muslims are terrorists, they blew up the twin tower. In fact, that was an inside job. But you believed him blindly, even today you try to defend what Mr. Bush said.

Ex-President Mr. Bush said Iraq produced mass-weapon of destruction and lied. Recent records shows just that. But you believe him blindly. Even you re-elect him for the second time. For what? So, he can invade Afghanistan, then probably Iran, then probably other developed Muslims countries one by one. Who followed their leaders blindly? Literate Christians and Atheists of the west.

USA and other developed western countries preach that they give freedom of speech, but prohibits Hijab. They show hatred towards muslim Hijab but have no problem with Christian Nuns. An employee of BBC got suspended for preaching false death news of the Queen. But the people believe the freedom is given. Who follows blindly now? 

This list can go on... But I don't want to compare Muslims with Christians because that is not the issue we are talking about. We are talking about Islam and Christianity. They both have similarities and differences. Let's take the similarities and keep aside the differences. 

If you're going to call out someone else for bullshit facts, you should probably try to avoid creating some of your own.

9/11 was an inside job? /facepalm

There is so much evidence to the contrary that it's absurd people still spout this line. On top of that, there is NO WAY a secret of that magnitude stays covered up. Hell, the GOP couldn't even break into a hotel without the press figuring it out, much less Clinton getting a knobby in the Oval Office. But somehow they organized an internal attack against the largest private sector building in the country and no one has figured it out yet...

And since when has the US prohibited hijabs? Two states prohibit them from being used in identification photos, which falls under the category of "well, duh". Stop lumping us in with France.