Minors still manage to get cigarettes and booze. Care to guess how?

If you guessed older people buying it for them, you are correct!

Hmm... I can't say I'm a huge fan of it, but I can also see why we might need it. Yes, the gaming industry, like other entertainment ones, is self-regulated. However, it is only the gaming one, where, despite repeated efforts of the regulators to educate parents about the ratings, still has a majority of them just not caring (or even knowing) what those ratings mean. A parent who would think twice before letting their 12-year old into an R-rated movie won't bat an eye at buying an M-rated game, because, after all, games are "just for kids." (This, obviously, highlights another problem the industry has not been able to shake, but that could be a whole new topic for discussion.) Thus, why the government would step in. The gaming industry is unable to overcome these hurdles, and is thus, the only entertainment industry that will sell (or grant access to) certain content before any other entertainment to minors.

I really don't care what way the law goes; I'm of age to make my own informed decisions. But there are 3 things that need to happen for me to see this law as not needed. First, the gamers. We need to stop acting childish about things; it is these actions that perpetuate that gaming is for kids. There have been threads on this here before, so I won't delve deep into that. Second, is that many makers of 'mature' games know damn well that they're targetting the pre-17 demographic. They're the easiest to get hyped about an M-rated game- it makes them 'mature' to play it. This leads to my third point: use of the word 'mature.' I see this as the biggest problem, as games in this category tend to fall into 2 completely different categories. First, you have the legitimately mature games, things like Shin Megami Tensei. These do deal with some serious topics in a serious manner, sometimes in ways that require intellectual thought to fully grasp everything going on. But the majority of M games fall into the latter category- mature for the 'duh-hur's.' Things like GTA fall squarely in this category. There is not a 'mature' concept in this, it basically comes down to "run around and blow shit up." In neither case can I make an argument for an average 12-year old to play these games, but one of these type is definitely more mature than the other.

So how can we fix things? Well, gamers can't be regulated as people- we have to fix ourselves. I guess we have to write that off. Second is that the industry needs to properly target who they market to. I suspect this will take government intervention, like was required to get cigarette companies to stop marketting to children. And the third... I'd almost suggest that ESRB and MPAA could work together to apply the movie ratings to games- parents know what an 'R' rating is, but not an 'M.' And the ratings line up quite well- eC=G, E (and E10)=PG, T=PG-13, M=R, and AO=NC-17. If that won't work, then M would need to be changed, maybe just change the word, if you will, to 'moderated' instead of 'mature.' Casting off that one has to be 'mature' to play these games is essential, since, as many gamers of many M games know, there are always a few players online who don't have any maturity...

I really don't see what the problem is. It works totally fine in other countries.

Which SMT game is mature and "require intellectual thought"? What is the "mature concept" on that game? :)

I own only DDS1&2, lucifers call, persona3:fes/4 and I can get to play the ds games so I hope it is one of them.

Persona 3,4 - CERO B (12 ) in Japan, 16 in Europe, M in the US

DDS and Devil Summoner are CERO C (15 ), 16 EU, M in US. I think Nocturne as well.

They are not light-hearted games, but kids aren't idiots and they don't need to be sheltered from all serious thinking. It's the same as with anime, hell Fullmetal Alchemist for example has a serious story going on, it has blood, it has people dying. What now, is it M?

TBH, in all likelihood, if that bill passes, games in those regions will be reviewed for a rating again, if they are looking for the "too violent" factor, and such games won't make it into the list. However, wording and point of view is everything, so there you have a game that's 12 in Japan and M in the US (with Japan being actually less tolerant of violence), so how are you going to put your faith in someone to decide just what is not acceptable on the same level as alcohol and porn?

edit: And I do agree that actually violent games could do with some more parental education in the matter, but ultimately, do you want a nanny state to do it for you? Plus in the end, there are no solid facts regarding short-term and long-term effects of these games aside from kids getting used to being obnoxious pricks online. Not an argument a government should bother with, otherwise they could go after all sorts of tv programmes potentially making people dumb, fast food making them fat and what not. (Mind you, I don't think porn needs the certified system either, everyone can get porn and it's actually one of the genres that parents are aware of).

I didn't really care about this until I read "citing social research that declared Super Mario Bros. to be a violent video game"...

Then the thought of cutting content for nicer ratings kicked in. This is bad... very bad...

This is nothing to worry about, everyone knows that HD consoles will be the death of gaming.

This.

you pretty much nailed it right there.  Whether or not this law actually takes away aspects of free speech is yet to be seen, but it most certainly will start us on the path to censorship.  Once the government has its hands on the media, they will slowly seek to control it more and more, just like everything else.  For example, look at public schooling.  Look at what is was like before the federal government got its hands on it and what it is now.  They are slowly taking away all control from the schools.  

doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Kids can't get into R rated movies without a parent, kids shouldn't get M rated games without a parent. Bring Mom and Dad and go get whatever game you wish.